You are right in terms of my error when trying the individual segments - DEL-ZRH or ZRH-BOS.
However, I did not make the error, when typing in DEL-BOS.
I am looking for the cheapest fare basis/booking code availability - namely, E class (as per Sabre fares access methods) - it is about $650 return (base fare only)! Problems are finding "E" booking code availability for DEL-BOS; such available easily displayed for BOS-DEL (interested in LX only). I can now get E availability to display when looking at DEL-ZRH or ZRH-BOS separately.
When looking at booking code availability for DEL-BOS:
1. However, in terms of Sabre or WSpan, no E class (cheapest fare basis, as per sabre fare access methods) - see your example for sabre.
2. In terms of Galileo, no E class.
2. However. in terms of Apollo, no LX (but all other airlines displayed) - even when LX specified:
You are right in terms of my error when trying the individual segments - DEL-ZRH or ZRH-BOS.
However, I did not make the error, when typing in DEL-BOS.
LX E class is shown using the Galileo and Apollo Methods. However, neither of them pick-up the LX connection on the return, most likely because of the very long layover time in ZRH (11+ hours).
LX E class is shown using the Galileo and Apollo Methods. However, neither of them pick-up the LX connection on the return, most likely because of the very long layover time in ZRH (11+ hours).
Part 1:
You are therefore saying that a connection (involving international travel) which is less than 23h59min (which is legal) will not necessarily show up in your access methods? What is the cut-off time for the access methods to show a connection?
Why did Apollo (as well as WSpan) show routings using all other airlines, when LX was specified (see my example with apollo). This did not happen with sabre (see your example)?
Sabre does not show E class fares? Is it true that sabre may not show certain fares for given routes (any airlines), but which may be seen using the galileo and apollo methods? To ask the question in a another way, for any given airline, which access method can display the widest range of booking code availability?
Last edited by FlyerGoldII; Jan 12, 08 at 7:25 am.
The KVS tool gives the following fares - we are interested in the $650ESLLICUS fares. But the Swiss International Airlines web site, does indicate that E class fares are available on those 2 days (going and coming back), but it quotes a fare of just under $1050 (includes all fees and taxes). Why the discrepancy between the quoted fares, between the 2 sites? Obviously, with such a discrepancy, the LX web site would have to be the one relied upon, for booking purposes.
BOS Boston Logan Int'l MA US [KBOS]
DEL Delhi Indira Gandhi Int'l IN [VIDP]
THU 06 Mar 2008 / WED 02 Apr 2008 / RT
Carrier From To Fare Cur Fare Basis
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- ----------
LX BOS DEL 650 CAD ESLLICUS
LX BOS DEL 901 CAD WSLLICUS
LX BOS DEL 1102 CAD TICSWIUS
LX BOS DEL 1323 CAD LICSWIUS
LX BOS DEL 1575 CAD QICSWIUS
LX BOS DEL 1927 CAD HICSWIUS
LX BOS DEL 2128 CAD MICSWIUS
LX BOS DEL 2992 CAD BICSWIUS
LX BOS DEL 5737 CAD YICSWIUS
Programs: Aeroplan Elite *G, Emirates Skywards, AA Gold
Posts: 8,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerGoldII
Part 2:
Can sabre dot/res be wrong?
Let me give the following example:
The KVS tool gives the following fares - we are interested in the $650ESLLICUS fares. But the Swiss International Airlines web site, does indicate that E class fares are available on those 2 days (going and coming back), but it quotes a fare of just under $1050 (includes all fees and taxes). Why the discrepancy between the quoted fares, between the 2 sites? Obviously, with such a discrepancy, the LX web site would have to be the one relied upon, for booking purposes.
BOS Boston Logan Int'l MA US [KBOS]
DEL Delhi Indira Gandhi Int'l IN [VIDP]
THU 06 Mar 2008 / WED 02 Apr 2008 / RT
Carrier From To Fare Cur Fare Basis
--------- ------ ---- --------- ---- --------- ---- ---- ----------
LX BOS DEL 650 CAD ESLLICUS
LX BOS DEL 901 CAD WSLLICUS
LX BOS DEL 1102 CAD TICSWIUS
LX BOS DEL 1323 CAD LICSWIUS
LX BOS DEL 1575 CAD QICSWIUS
LX BOS DEL 1927 CAD HICSWIUS
LX BOS DEL 2128 CAD MICSWIUS
LX BOS DEL 2992 CAD BICSWIUS
LX BOS DEL 5737 CAD YICSWIUS
AFAIK that is the E class fare. From ITA:
Code:
Fare (A1): LX BOSDEL ESLLICUS fare (rules) , psgr type ADT $323.00
Fare (A2): LX DELBOS ESLLICUS fare (rules) , psgr type ADT $323.00
Tax: US September 11th Security Fee $2.50
Tax: US International Departure Tax $15.40
Tax: US Passenger Facility Charge $4.50
Tax: Indian Passenger Service Fee $5.70
Tax: US International Arrival Tax $15.40
Tax: Swiss Airport Passenger Security & Noise Charge CHF 46.00
Tax: US Customs Fee $5.50
Tax: US Immigration Fee $7.00
Tax: USDA APHIS Fee $5.00
Tax: LX YR surcharge $300.00
Total for 1 adult passenger: $1048.20
Fare (A1): LX BOSDEL ESLLICUS fare (rules) , psgr type ADT $323.00
Fare (A2): LX DELBOS ESLLICUS fare (rules) , psgr type ADT $323.00
Tax: US September 11th Security Fee $2.50
Tax: US International Departure Tax $15.40
Tax: US Passenger Facility Charge $4.50
Tax: Indian Passenger Service Fee $5.70
Tax: US International Arrival Tax $15.40
Tax: Swiss Airport Passenger Security & Noise Charge CHF 46.00
Tax: US Customs Fee $5.50
Tax: US Immigration Fee $7.00
Tax: USDA APHIS Fee $5.00
Tax: LX YR surcharge $300.00
Total for 1 adult passenger: $1048.20
Cheers,
Thanks, for the information.
I have a couple of questions:
1. I have not used the ITA software (found on the FT Talklinks) in the past. I quickly looked at the fare on ITA a few minutes ago; I could not figure out how one got the breakdown (as you have displayed it above) the taxes and fees.
2.What is the LX YR surcharge all about? Is that surcharge present in all economy fares, or all fares, from US to India via LX or US to anywhere LX flies?
3. I would like to ask KVS whether the KVS tool can give a breakdown of fees and taxes for any and every fare basis, as the ITA software?
Programs: Aeroplan Elite *G, Emirates Skywards, AA Gold
Posts: 8,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerGoldII
Thanks, for the information.
I have a couple of questions:
1. I have not used the ITA software (found on the FT Talklinks) in the past. I quickly looked at the fare on ITA a few minutes ago; I could not figure out how one got the breakdown (as you have displayed it above) the taxes and fees.
2.What is the LX YR surcharge all about? Is that surcharge present in all economy fares, or all fares, from US to India via LX or US to anywhere LX flies?
3. I would like to ask KVS whether the KVS tool can give a breakdown of fees and taxes for any and every fare basis, as the ITA software?
2. YR = Fuel surcharge. I am not sure how it is decided upon.
3. No. This would not be possible as taxes vary by route taken, stopovers etc.
Cheers,
Thanks, for the assistance.
In terms of your answer to question 3 - the ITA software can give a breakdown of taxes and fees for any route taken (perhaps with stopovers). I wonder if this type of ITA functionality can be incorporated into the a future version of the KVS tool - so I do not have to go to 2 separate software programs, to figure out: first, the fare for a given fare basis and booking code, and then second, find out the true fare, when taxes and fees are taken into account.
When I had looked at this E fare on the KVS tool, I was speculating that the taxes and fees would add up to approximately $100 - which technically is the case - but the $300 surcharge brings up the fare so much that my relative now has to think of other options (she wants to go to DEL from YOW in early March for a month - using the cheapest fare which will earn full Aeroplan miles - she has no issues with routing or stopovers).
Programs: Aeroplan Elite *G, Emirates Skywards, AA Gold
Posts: 8,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerGoldII
Thanks, for the assistance.
In terms of your answer to question 3 - the ITA software can give a breakdown of taxes and fees for any route taken (perhaps with stopovers). I wonder if this type of ITA functionality can be incorporated into the a future version of the KVS tool - so I do not have to go to 2 separate software programs, to figure out: first, the fare for a given fare basis and booking code, and then second, find out the true fare, when taxes and fees are taken into account.
When I had looked at this E fare on the KVS tool, I was speculating that the taxes and fees would add up to approximately $100 - which technically is the case - but the $300 surcharge brings up the fare so much that my relative now has to think of other options (she wants to go to DEL from YOW in early March for a month - using the cheapest fare which will earn full Aeroplan miles - she has no issues with routing or stopovers).
While it may work for more simple fares, in practicality it would be impossible. I'll take an example:
There is an AC fare from Bangkok to Montreal with a fare basis of J. The base far is USD 2215 (one way.) The only routing restriction is that the mileage should be below 11,548. Therefore, I can find infinitely many different routings on this fare with varying costs. It would be impossible to list all these combinations with total fare in any tool or program.
Sample Routings with Fares:
Code:
BKK-LH-FRA-AC-YUL. Fare $2595
BKK-MH-KUL-MH-FRA-AC-YUL Fare $2658
BKK-EK-DXB-EK-HAM-LX-ZRH-LX-FRA-AC-YUL Fare $2492
BKK-TG-LHR (stop) - AC - YUL Fare $2810
BKK-SQ-SIN-EK-DXB-QR-DOH-QR-CDG-AC-YUL Fare $2479
Even fuel surcharges can vary depending on a number of factors. I was booking a ticket from LHR to YYZ on AC which included an 80.00GBP fuel surcharge. However, when I combined the same AC fare with an EK fare from KHI, the 80.00GBP fuel surcharge no longer applied.
You are therefore saying that a connection (involving international travel) which is less than 23h59min (which is legal) will not necessarily show up in your access methods? What is the cut-off time for the access methods to show a connection?
Why did Apollo (as well as WSpan) show routings using all other airlines, when LX was specified (see my example with apollo). This did not happen with sabre (see your example)?
That's just how those systems work ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyerGoldII
Sabre does not show E class fares? Is it true that sabre may not show certain fares for given routes (any airlines), but which may be seen using the galileo and apollo methods? To ask the question in a another way, for any given airline, which access method can display the widest range of booking code availability?
The Galileo Method can show the availability for the widest range of booking classes, followed by Apollo, and Sabre Methods.
Programs: DL Plat (frmr NW), IHG PC Plat, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Slvr, Choice Priv Gold, National Emrld Exec
Posts: 1,422
NWA R (Elite Upgrade) availability?
Please forgive my searching ineptitude - I just can't seem to get it to work given the 4 char min on searches....
Does KVS show R bucket now? I remember it used to but it lost it some time back. I'm not completely happy with Expertflyer so I'm thinking about switching back if KVS can show R.
Please forgive my searching ineptitude - I just can't seem to get it to work given the 4 char min on searches....
Does KVS show R bucket now? I remember it used to but it lost it some time back. I'm not completely happy with Expertflyer so I'm thinking about switching back if KVS can show R.
Unfortunately it cannot. Please see the [Classes Displayed By Airline] section of the KVS Tool FAQ (located at the very top of this thread).
I was able to confirm that the QF OW Award search engine is currently not returning any BA flights. This may possibly be caused by a [temporary] data link loss issue between BA and QF ...
BA has been missing from OneWorld Award search for the last 3 days. I hope it is not a permanent removal from QF search engine.
I apologize if this has been asked before but is the E class that's now coming up for CO for standard first award availability or did they make it the new R class (heavily discounted first)? Thanks
