OccasionalFlyerPerson

I said early on in the thread that I don't support prohibition and I don't say that people shouldn't drink. I'm not sure where the implication came from, but my clear statement early on should over-rule that.

I'm not intending to find a place with no alcohol to go to, I was just curious as to whether such a place exists. My curiosity is due to finding out more about Iran, where my next non-work overseas trip is likely to be to. I was not too surprised to hear about illicit alcohol there, already being familiar with both the fact that many Iranians are very liberal and not really all that religious, and having heard about what goes on in Saudi. However, I was surprised to find out that alcohol is legal for non-Muslims.

Knowing about Iran and Saudi, I was curious to know if there are any countries without alcohol. There was no intention to say that countries should be like that, or that I particularly wanted to go to. When I believed that Iran is dryer than it is, I thought that less alcohol might be an interesting side-effect of going there. Seeing such a society might be interesting, as I said, but I don't think I've said anything resembling 'you need to be in a place that prohibits alcohol for everyone.' I've asked about a place with no alcohol only because I'm curious if such a place exists; not because I'm insisting on going to any such place. (Which would be moot anyway: If this thread has come to any conclusion it's that such a place does not exist.)

Hence, I think the problem you're having with my posts is your interpretation of them, not in anything that I've said.

erik123

Such a place does not exist.

Libya under Qaddafi was very strict on alcohol with severe penalties but that it was still widely available. See: https://www.opendemocracy.net/rhiann...p-with-alcohol

I visited Sudan in the early 90s and alcohol was strictly controlled (and still is I suspect). I was invited to a party and the first thing we did (after the host picked me up from the hotel) was buy 6 bottles of liquor at US$100 each from the guard at the residence of a western Ambassador. You can be sure that was one of the perks for being stationed there as a diplomat.

84fiero

FWIW, I had a similar impression as Kevin AA from the way you were asking the questions and from a couple of your comments, especially the second one...

So even though it may not have been your intent, it did appear to me as though you had a moral preference for not visiting/living somewhere if even some people in the location consume alcohol.

OccasionalFlyerPerson

Concentrating on the second comment which you singled out, I'm saying that as a non-drinker, I don't understand why people would find it hard to live without alcohol for a while. With 'I don't understand' being expressed as 'it is not so obvious to me'. That's a simple expression of not understanding something. Where does the moral preference come in? I can't think of anything food or drink wise that I wouldn't just give up if I went to a country where it was illegal. Even if I thought the law was stupid. So, why is alcohol so important for people? That's not a rhetorical question, it's a straightforward question. I suspect that you and Kevin AA have interpreted that as a rhetorical question, creating a meaning in my text that was not there.

The first does make a moral statement, but it's not about drinking in general. It's about going to another country and starting a criminal enterprise. I will support people who break some laws that I feel are considerably unjust, and conflict with human rights. E.g. I support people's rights to change/reject their religion. However, i don't think that being able to to drink alcohol is a basic human right. Hence, even though I don't support prohibition, I'm unimpressed by people who go to a dry country and start smuggling/bootlegging operations. I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion; I don't think it justifies a comment to 'mind [my] own business.'

TomMM

Instead of asking on FT, go to Iran and ask the locals about this:

If they tell you to 'mind your own business', take that as hint to 'mind your own business'.

OccasionalFlyerPerson

As mentioned in my first post, I was already aware of the situation in Iran. I started the thread to ask about other countries. Hence, I find your above comment a bit odd.

As I said, I'm asking general questions, and don't think this is a situation where 'mind your own business' is appropriate.

If people go to a country such as Saudi which is dry, and start up illegal bootlegging businesses etc., then it's reasonable for me to be unimpressed by this. It's reasonable for me to express that opinion in a travel forum.

Nobody has explained why such an opinion is unreasonable, or why it shouldn't be expressed in a travel (sub-) forum. They've just asked me to 'mind my own business' for no explained reason. Hence, I think the request, not what I've written, is unreasonable.

As I've said, I don't understand the situation. That I get told to 'mind my own business' which I interpret as effectively telling me to shut up, is in itself interesting. Why would people want to shut down discussion of people who drink alcohol in dry countries? Rather than just explaining why they do?

E.g. here's a BBC article on 'Saudi Arabia drinking: The risks expats take for a tipple' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34516143

I don't understand why people would take such risks. While it's not the original topic of the thread, if anyone would like to explain, I'm all ears.

(One of several) Edit: Interesting bit in the BBC article. My emphasis.

invisible

Caucasus republics (Armenia/Azerbaijan/Georgia) are some of few countries which citizens of Iran can visit visa free.

According to people who are working in tourist industry in these countries middle class iranian visitors are one of main spenders on alcohol and gambling. The same applies to visitors from countries of Arabian peninsula.

OccasionalFlyerPerson

I'm not surprised! I saw a youtube video where someone French was speaking to young Iranians. He asked one young man where he'd most like to go in the world and the answer was Las Vegas. Reason: gambling.

The first time I ever met a Saudi Arabian, he had a glass in his hand which he was filling with scotch!

ilcannone

From experience of living in KSA, if one was to befriend locals (not the easiest thing to do...), one would find someone who made their own. Consequently, I ended up drinking at the homes of local Saudis/non-Saudis who lived their whole lives there. Of course, some of them would have contacts to those on compounds (which I didn't live in sadly), or they'd simply smuggle it in from Bahrain/Dubai/Doha

GotogoBob

GotogoBob

I lived in Isfahan Iran for 3 years 1976 to 1979. We had a several pubs that sold beer made in Iran we called it " Green" beer it was ok but gave a hangover. One pub sold only Sheep brains and stomach with beer. I remember it was always smokey and everybody was always laughing and having a good time. Sometime I was the only American there and they treated me like family.

OccasionalFlyerPerson

Interesting story: thanks.

It's claimed on Wikipedia that Shiraz was where the first wine was brewed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrah#Shiraz_wines but I wouldn't trust that without looking at more reliable sources. But, if that's true, then it would be unusual that the birthplace of wine is now dry. Officially, at least

cardsqc

There's some towns/counties in Utah that are dry. That said, I don't know if there was any restriction on bringing your own alcohol into town, but at the very least it wasn't necessarily easily available to the general public in the town. I was on a trip visiting national parks out west, and it was quite amusing the one evening to see the waitress in the restaurant explaining again and again to various tables that the town was dry, and no, you can't order alcohol. The completely perplexed expressions of the various europeans that were listening to that was quite amusing. (The only reason I single europeans out there was that it seemed like there was a large number of europeans visiting the national parks during that time period, and in most of these cases it seemed that they were the ones that were having problems with the concept that a town would be dry.)

Long Train Runnin

I just got back from a stay in Male, Maldives. Sure you can get booze on the resort islands, but no booze for sale in the capitol city. Probably, the closest I've come to finding an alcohol free place.

erik123

Good suggestion. Unlike the resort islands, some islands have B&Bs and local hotels focused on tourists. Those will be alcohol free as it is illegal for tourists to bring any alcohol in.