Badenoch

No worries about a gas pump swallowing your card. Everyone I've seen is a quick insert and easy to remove if required.

#4 has worked for me in both Florida and Michigan. The three numbers in your postal code plus 00.

What has always worked for me at U.S. gas stations is a debit card.

mikesyr18

The problem in the U.S is the Durbin Amendment.

The worst administration, and one of the many politicians who should have retired a long time ago, thought it would be great to take a free market system and put a cap on debit card interchange fees and not credit card interchange fees.

If you use a PIN, the bank is lucky to make $.25 on a debit card transaction, so now they push signature and run it over the Visa/MC network to get the same interchange rate as a credit card would.

If you use a PIN on a credit card, the interchange fees go down because the idea behind interchange fees are to mostly pay for the cost of fraud, followed by paying for the cost to run the system, and then profit after that. If fraud goes down, then the cry baby merchants will complain to the government who will then cave like always and place a cap on credit card interchange fees too, so they've left the payment style as chip and signature.

Don't believe for a second it's about "American's being too stupid to remember PINS." It's about padding profits, like everything else in the U.S.

invisible

I would VERY seriously advice against using debit card at gas stations. Especially directly at pump. And especially if debit card is from country where consumer protection is not greatest protecting from fraud.

Two facts:

- Three of my friend's cards were skimmed at gas stations - two at Bay Area and one at NY area. After that several hundred/thousand $ were drained from their accounts. This continues happening all the time - just google 'card skimming at pump' and you will see results.

- Banks are way less willing/cooperative to deal with debit card fraud, especially when PIN is involved comparing to credit card fraud. And in come countries you might be SOL trying to get your money back. I know a story how one guy's card was skimmed and local Singaporean bank refused to refund money. He lost about $8000.

I personally when travelling leave all my Singaporean debit cards home, take only US Capital One card where the account has less than $1000 and only withdraw money at ATMs which are inside bank branches. For everything else - credit card/online payment (95% cases) or cash (mostly at developing countries).

Sopwith

I have had my Visa card "compromised" at least four or five times, all of which happened at gas stations and restaurants where they had to take the card out of my sight. I don't let them do that any more.

In Canada they bring the card reader to the table and the whole transaction is done right there, quickly, no fuss, no muss. Not in the US.

What is infuriating is when Visa shuts the card down while you're traveling without telling you.

tmiw

There's absolutely no guarantee that those fees will voluntarily go down if PIN were to ever become a thing on credit cards. In fact, government action (or threat of such) was the only thing that did in at least several countries.

This depends on the country as you said; in the US at least, banks take care of debit card fraud pretty quickly from what I've seen. The main problem with debit card fraud is that a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck and a compromise could cause a lot of issues paying bills, especially since the bank isn't obligated to return the money immediately. (US law/regulation gives them 10 business days.)

What gas stations take cards away from you? I don't think I've ever seen this at places where you pump gas yourself; it's been a while since I've been to Oregon or NJ so I don't remember what they do there.

Badenoch

Canadian banks are pretty good about debit card fraud but it's a good point. I check my on-line banking regularly and would notice an irregularity.

mikesyr18

I think you misread the post.

The poster was saying they have problems at gas stations (a common place for fraud), but also have problems at restaurants where they take the cards away from you.

Yet the retailers are pushing for PINs for that reason alone.

You can be willing to bet the clown who represents Illinois will try to unsuccessfully add another provision to his amendment by including credit card interchange fee caps because they are PIN only now.

reclusive46

4 has always worked for me as well on Canadian Visa and Amex cards. (The same trick also works on UK Amex cards)

tmiw

They're pushing to be able to force debit cards to be run over the debit networks, not Visa/MC. While most "debit" transactions need a PIN, it is possible to run smaller transactions over some debit networks without one. The distinction also isn't too relevant for cards from major banks either, as they cost merchants the same either way.

As for credit cards, merchants care about those less. Especially since being able to surcharge for those solves that "problem".

BigFlyer

In all of the Chip & PIN countries AFAIK they bring the reader to you in a restaurant - no other practical way to do it.

To those of you with Canadian, European, or other Chip & PIN cards - what happens when you are in the US? Are there any situations where you are prompted to enter your PIN?

tmiw

They could just have people pay at the front like we already do at places like Denny's. In fact, if the US ever mandated PIN on cards I could see us mostly adopting that instead of wireless card terminals since some people seem uncomfortable with the latter (and more importantly, the equipment is already there to support payments at the counter).

Also, in my experience, most places do prompt for the PIN on my Diners Club card. However, a significant number of merchants also don't bother asking for transactions under $25-50 or so--or at all for the places that use Square.

mikesyr18

I've never been surcharged to use a credit card.

Never here in NY or in Florida.

Wanna surcharge for a credit card? I throw the item on the counter and leave.

tmiw

I see it pretty often for smaller businesses around here, though it's usually only imposed under $5-10. The "normal" purchases by customers are also large enough where the surcharge is almost never applied. To be honest, I'm okay with that approach because it's more likely it's being done to help offset their costs (vs. for something like tax evasion).

BigFlyer

You say they "could" - but my question is what are they actually doing?

If I show up with a Chip & PIN card in the US, do I enter a PIN (e.g., at restaurants), or I don't?

tmiw

Last time I used my Diners Club card at a restaurant was at California Pizza Kitchen. The server took the card away, fought with the POS/terminal for a minute and then came back and asked me to go with him to the takeout counter to run the card there.

Another experience early on in my Diners Club ownership was also similar. The server once again took the card and then came back and told me that it was asking for the PIN. I had to go to the back of the restaurant to enter it.

Altogether, I've only had someone come to the table with a wireless card terminal once in the US. The rest of the time was either like I described or was a place like Denny's where it was expected to pay at the front. I mostly just use my chip and signature cards at restaurants now because of this (and also because DC's rewards aren't good enough to consistently deal with the hassle), even though chip-enabled restaurants are still pretty uncommon. I'd probably think differently if wireless terminals were more common or if we more consistently had to pay at the front.