The value of first class
Aug 19, 2016, 7:39 pm
#62
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Aug 19, 2016, 8:32 pm
#63
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In Indonesia on Garuda they assigned a girl to process my boarding pass, carry my carry-on to the lounge, stay with me to serve me in the lounge.
Aug 20, 2016, 12:45 am
#64
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If you're in F, absolutely. Chiangi has a separate door from the curb into the terminal for First Class (and Solitaire) including someone to take your bags. Sit in a lounge while they process your boarding pass then a back door into passport control so you skip the line.
In Indonesia on Garuda they assigned a girl to process my boarding pass, carry my carry-on to the lounge, stay with me to serve me in the lounge.
In Indonesia on Garuda they assigned a girl to process my boarding pass, carry my carry-on to the lounge, stay with me to serve me in the lounge.
Aug 22, 2016, 5:04 pm
#66
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I actually think it's higher than some people might guess, albeit with many travelers on corporate discount fares. (Large-corp discounts for premium cabin can be high...30-40% off the rack rate shown on an Internet search.)
I think there's a lot of paid J travel out there, and then some subset of those people use upgrade instruments to get to three-cabin F. There's perhaps *less* paid F travel, but if J is the moneymaker then the airline is still doing quite fine when people upgrade J->F.
At a couple of my large-firm jobs, we'd occasionally get a promo email about confirmed upgrades to F when we bought J. Sadly I never managed to snag the routes/dates when it applied. My paid J travel was South America or secondary Europe markets where there were only two cabins to begin with.
On some routes, airlines also seek to sell J seats to leisure travelers, something they didn't seem to care about doing the past. Pricing in the $2500-3000 R/T range for Europe, for example. (With enough restrictions to segment them from business travelers, of course.) In the past, more of those seats would stick around for upgraders...now they're getting sold.
I think there's a lot of paid J travel out there, and then some subset of those people use upgrade instruments to get to three-cabin F. There's perhaps *less* paid F travel, but if J is the moneymaker then the airline is still doing quite fine when people upgrade J->F.
At a couple of my large-firm jobs, we'd occasionally get a promo email about confirmed upgrades to F when we bought J. Sadly I never managed to snag the routes/dates when it applied. My paid J travel was South America or secondary Europe markets where there were only two cabins to begin with.
On some routes, airlines also seek to sell J seats to leisure travelers, something they didn't seem to care about doing the past. Pricing in the $2500-3000 R/T range for Europe, for example. (With enough restrictions to segment them from business travelers, of course.) In the past, more of those seats would stick around for upgraders...now they're getting sold.
Aug 22, 2016, 6:46 pm
#67
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I actually think it's higher than some people might guess, albeit with many travelers on corporate discount fares. (Large-corp discounts for premium cabin can be high...30-40% off the rack rate shown on an Internet search.)
I think there's a lot of paid J travel out there, and then some subset of those people use upgrade instruments to get to three-cabin F. There's perhaps *less* paid F travel, but if J is the moneymaker then the airline is still doing quite fine when people upgrade J->F.
At a couple of my large-firm jobs, we'd occasionally get a promo email about confirmed upgrades to F when we bought J. Sadly I never managed to snag the routes/dates when it applied. My paid J travel was South America or secondary Europe markets where there were only two cabins to begin with.
On some routes, airlines also seek to sell J seats to leisure travelers, something they didn't seem to care about doing the past. Pricing in the $2500-3000 R/T range for Europe, for example. (With enough restrictions to segment them from business travelers, of course.) In the past, more of those seats would stick around for upgraders...now they're getting sold.
I think there's a lot of paid J travel out there, and then some subset of those people use upgrade instruments to get to three-cabin F. There's perhaps *less* paid F travel, but if J is the moneymaker then the airline is still doing quite fine when people upgrade J->F.
At a couple of my large-firm jobs, we'd occasionally get a promo email about confirmed upgrades to F when we bought J. Sadly I never managed to snag the routes/dates when it applied. My paid J travel was South America or secondary Europe markets where there were only two cabins to begin with.
On some routes, airlines also seek to sell J seats to leisure travelers, something they didn't seem to care about doing the past. Pricing in the $2500-3000 R/T range for Europe, for example. (With enough restrictions to segment them from business travelers, of course.) In the past, more of those seats would stick around for upgraders...now they're getting sold.
Aug 23, 2016, 1:11 am
#68
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Sometimes 1st is cheaper than economy for my flights....that is always sweet!
I've been hitting about 35% upgrades nationally with delta.
I've been hitting about 35% upgrades nationally with delta.
Last edited by pharmawalk; Aug 23, 2016 at 1:27 am
Aug 23, 2016, 8:26 am
#69
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I am not sure I would appreciate first/business class. It’s comfortable certainly, and the extra room is nice; I am six feet tall, the average height of men in say Holland, but somehow I’m just fine in coach. Being slim, I’m not impacted much sideways or forward.
Free drinks and various other perks surely come in handy too. But when I flew first class once in my twenties, the temptation of keeping the drinks coming may have caused some of my enjoyment to be blacked out.
Going to a good restaurant from time to time is worthwhile, as is in general going somewhere on vacation to unwind and being open to the world around you. Museums, taking a horse and buggy ride through the park, a really nice hotel.
But stepping up from economy on a plane? Is it any better than an airport lounge with the notable exception than alcohol is free? Even if I could lie down and sleep, wouldn’t I want to remember my time here? Is it unreasonable to consider that part of the fun?
You reach the gap in quality quickly; an upgrade tends to revolve around quantity. More legroom, square footage Vegas-style. And does more distance to your neighbor seat make the noise any less irritating when he rattles the entire inside of the bag for every potato chip that he picks up individually?
Like it is never going to stop. Or when he flips through a magazine one page at a time, trying to find something to read on the open page and yet at the same time have the fingers ready for the next. It’s unlikely that there’s a correlation between class and manners, or just that you’re more relaxed when your seating is more comfortable.
Maybe that’s what I'm afraid of now that my wife thinks it could be fun once again trying out first class. I’m sure it could be, hopefully. Stretching out and flushing all those years of cramped economy out of the system. Relaxing your muscles, getting the personal Pan Am experience by some pretty flight attendant. Wow, did I really say that? I must be dreaming!
I have nothing to whine about. We just got a chunk of free points due to some inconvenience that an airline’s delayed flight put us through. Which airline, do you think, should we spend the upgrade on? Air France, British Airways, Air Canada come to mind. Thank you very much.
Free drinks and various other perks surely come in handy too. But when I flew first class once in my twenties, the temptation of keeping the drinks coming may have caused some of my enjoyment to be blacked out.
Going to a good restaurant from time to time is worthwhile, as is in general going somewhere on vacation to unwind and being open to the world around you. Museums, taking a horse and buggy ride through the park, a really nice hotel.
But stepping up from economy on a plane? Is it any better than an airport lounge with the notable exception than alcohol is free? Even if I could lie down and sleep, wouldn’t I want to remember my time here? Is it unreasonable to consider that part of the fun?
You reach the gap in quality quickly; an upgrade tends to revolve around quantity. More legroom, square footage Vegas-style. And does more distance to your neighbor seat make the noise any less irritating when he rattles the entire inside of the bag for every potato chip that he picks up individually?
Like it is never going to stop. Or when he flips through a magazine one page at a time, trying to find something to read on the open page and yet at the same time have the fingers ready for the next. It’s unlikely that there’s a correlation between class and manners, or just that you’re more relaxed when your seating is more comfortable.
Maybe that’s what I'm afraid of now that my wife thinks it could be fun once again trying out first class. I’m sure it could be, hopefully. Stretching out and flushing all those years of cramped economy out of the system. Relaxing your muscles, getting the personal Pan Am experience by some pretty flight attendant. Wow, did I really say that? I must be dreaming!
I have nothing to whine about. We just got a chunk of free points due to some inconvenience that an airline’s delayed flight put us through. Which airline, do you think, should we spend the upgrade on? Air France, British Airways, Air Canada come to mind. Thank you very much.
this being said i have the same sentiment as you. i used to be an airline employee so travelling j isn't much of a novelty, and i am just fine for any length flight in y as long as i get boozed up and take 2-3 advil night with the meal. how you found less enjoyment in getting blackout in j is confusing for me, the entire point of flying in j is having someone facilitate you getting blacked out.
lately i've started questioning whether using my miles for ultra long haul j is the best choice...i mean i can have 2 long haul trips and a valuable intra-north america short haul redemption for the price of that 1 ultra long j. while deliberately dressing trashy, getting blitzed off raki on tk, and loudly laughing at some will farrell movie is neat, it's even more neat to get 3 trips out of my miles.
anyways the last redemption was for bae who never flies up front. that's most likely solely how i'll redeem.
anyways ac af ba are a terrible 3 options but not the most awful in the world either....can't get anything on br, nh, oz, sq, tk, os?
Aug 23, 2016, 8:37 am
#70
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my seat mate and i talked for a large portion of the flight. she revealed that she was travelling to do qc on a piece of equipment they were manufacturing in some far distant country. her flight, booked that morning, cost her company $11,000usd. i said "woah". she said "meh, that piece of equipment is worth $8 million and it's to go on a larger piece of equipment that costs us $44 million. the production delays per day cost more than my flight". i then told her i was an employee travelling nonrev. she laughed and hi fived me. nice lady.
moral of the story: labor and travel expenses are virtually the last worry for capital intensive industries.
and yeah there are 5 percenters out there who will just pay (def not $11,000, more like $5-7k for a flight that sells in y for $1500) cause that amount is of no object to them. i had inlaws like that.
Last edited by cur; Aug 23, 2016 at 8:42 am
Aug 24, 2016, 5:02 am
#72
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For myself, a 50m2 suite does not provide any more appreciable/realized comfort than does a 25m2 room. Not as much as going from 35" pitch to 70" of space.
At standard body build I don't 'suffer' in Y seats - did it all in my first 5 years of serious flying. But I have physical restlessness and if I'm comfortable with the price of premium, why put up with the discomfort?
Booked companion J seats for my gf next month hoping to flip her to the dark side. Hope she doesn't get addicted to it too much too fast
Aug 24, 2016, 5:48 am
#73
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Aug 24, 2016, 7:25 am
#74
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When I first started flying (occasionally, just for vacation) I had no problem flying coach. When I started flying for work and the company put me in business class for TATL I was ecstatic. After a while if I ended up in coach (say on a short domestic US flight) I was uncomfortable and unhappy. Status hit and suddenly I'm moving up to first more often than not. Now I'm disappointed if I end up stuck in business class.
Once you get used to it........