What airlines will be around in 25 years time?
#31
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
The entire aviation industry, worldwide, is heavily subsidized through protectionist policies, friendly local political accommodation, and cozy relationship with regulators.
Not to mention that most of the infrastructure besides the planes themselves is publicly funded. (I believe this is a good thing for many reasons...logistics, safety, standardization, etc....but it's a form of subsidization.)
Not to mention that most of the infrastructure besides the planes themselves is publicly funded. (I believe this is a good thing for many reasons...logistics, safety, standardization, etc....but it's a form of subsidization.)
Air Canada for example, successfully lobbied the government to stop ME3 from flying to Canada. Instead of competing, they are happy (as a public company!) to receive a govt subsidy in the form of interference/protectionism. Apart from that, they received bailout handouts in 2009.
#33
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 179
how about asia and europe region?
#34
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: W Florida
Programs: AA plat, UA 1K, Marriott lftm PL & Hilton gold, Celebrity elite, Fairmont pres
Posts: 19
Not all bad guys:
Eastern is coming back. What could possible be better?
Seriously, our LCCs are already uncompetitive and the great foreign carriers are eating their lunch.
Seriously, our LCCs are already uncompetitive and the great foreign carriers are eating their lunch.
#35
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Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,712
I see no reason other than nostalgia to classify Southwest as an LCC. Their cost basis is no longer lower than the remainign three hub-and-spoke legacies and their fares are often higher. We have a Big Four now, with a smattering of B-tier carriers, some LCC, some not.
#36
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
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I think the main reason I still have a hard time characterizing WN as part of the "Big Four" is because they have no alliance and such a small regional footprint.
Of course, learning that they collude just as much as the other three cartel members somewhat reduces my reluctance to admit them to this "club".
It will be interesting to see if one of Frontier, Allegiant, or Spirit ever attempts to clean up its image, offer halfway passable customer service, and attempt to behave like Southwest did many years ago. (It was no-frills, but prided itself on being customer-friendly.) It seems like Frontier might have a little bit of this in their DNA. They *were* this once. I don't expect Allegiant to do it...they're just going to keep duct-taping up old MD80's and flying them to Florida. Spirit talks a growth game, but hasn't shown any indication of ever behaving like a serious, professional airline (even a no-frills one).
Of course, learning that they collude just as much as the other three cartel members somewhat reduces my reluctance to admit them to this "club".
It will be interesting to see if one of Frontier, Allegiant, or Spirit ever attempts to clean up its image, offer halfway passable customer service, and attempt to behave like Southwest did many years ago. (It was no-frills, but prided itself on being customer-friendly.) It seems like Frontier might have a little bit of this in their DNA. They *were* this once. I don't expect Allegiant to do it...they're just going to keep duct-taping up old MD80's and flying them to Florida. Spirit talks a growth game, but hasn't shown any indication of ever behaving like a serious, professional airline (even a no-frills one).
#38
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 377
I agree.
#40
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: AA exp, Marriott Amb
Posts: 224
Three of the "Big Four" have the infrastructure and partnerships to support global travelers, Southwest can take you to the Caribbean for spring break. One of these things is not like the others.
#41
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: East Coast, USA
Posts: 1,032
Easy. For the 99%, if we look at the current profit rates:
North and South America: Spirit
Europe and Africa: RyanAir
Asia and Oceania: AirAsia
ME: all of the above?
For the 1%, private planes.
No elites, no whining about upgrades, everybody wins?
North and South America: Spirit
Europe and Africa: RyanAir
Asia and Oceania: AirAsia
ME: all of the above?
For the 1%, private planes.
No elites, no whining about upgrades, everybody wins?
#42
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,808
I think the main reason I still have a hard time characterizing WN as part of the "Big Four" is because they have no alliance and such a small regional footprint.
Of course, learning that they collude just as much as the other three cartel members somewhat reduces my reluctance to admit them to this "club".
It will be interesting to see if one of Frontier, Allegiant, or Spirit ever attempts to clean up its image, offer halfway passable customer service, and attempt to behave like Southwest did many years ago. (It was no-frills, but prided itself on being customer-friendly.) It seems like Frontier might have a little bit of this in their DNA. They *were* this once. I don't expect Allegiant to do it...they're just going to keep duct-taping up old MD80's and flying them to Florida. Spirit talks a growth game, but hasn't shown any indication of ever behaving like a serious, professional airline (even a no-frills one).
Of course, learning that they collude just as much as the other three cartel members somewhat reduces my reluctance to admit them to this "club".
It will be interesting to see if one of Frontier, Allegiant, or Spirit ever attempts to clean up its image, offer halfway passable customer service, and attempt to behave like Southwest did many years ago. (It was no-frills, but prided itself on being customer-friendly.) It seems like Frontier might have a little bit of this in their DNA. They *were* this once. I don't expect Allegiant to do it...they're just going to keep duct-taping up old MD80's and flying them to Florida. Spirit talks a growth game, but hasn't shown any indication of ever behaving like a serious, professional airline (even a no-frills one).
I still consider them an LCC (Low Class Carrier ha ha) due to the amenities and lack thereof, but certainly not on price..and I haven't for at least 7 years now.
In many ways, they have led the race to the bottom.
#43
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,576
I can't really predict which airlines will be flying, but whichever ones are left will probably buying aircraft from Comac, which will give Boeing and Airbus a good run for their money in the narrow body category and might even start developing wide bodies.
#45
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Virginia City Highlands
Programs: Nothing anymore after 20 years
Posts: 6,892