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Old Aug 31, 2015, 9:19 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by shuigao
I'm surprised that French isn't even in the top 10, given how many countries in Europe use it.
Outside of France, that would be Switzerland, Belgium and Luxembourg, not the most populous countries there are.
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Old Aug 31, 2015, 10:23 am
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Originally Posted by sktnyc
Well, I have been wanting to learn Spanish or French for a looong time.
Do it. I learned Spanish as an adult so it's certainly possible. And while I'll never have the fluency that comes with learning it as a child I can get by. It has been enormously enriching. It's the difference between being a tourist and a visitor.
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Old Aug 31, 2015, 11:12 am
  #18  
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Originally Posted by sktnyc
I was curious to know what languages helps travelers the most. Got this info from Wikipedia.
Which language helps travelers the most? I think it's very hard to make an argument for anything other than English.

(1) You can use it to do business with most of the world's major airlines, hotels, rental car agencies, and other tourism-related businesses.

(2) It's such a commonly-taught 2nd language in so many countries that it becomes the common backup language when those people travel to another non-English speaking country. (I see this all the time when I travel outside the English-speaking world.)

(3) Most of those billion-plus Mandarin speakers aren't anywhere near the travel industry. Navigating the largest Chinese cities without speaking Mandarin is doable...there's a transportation infrastructure and all sorts of businesses, hotels, restaurants, etc. that cater to the international traveler.

I think there's great benefit to learning the native language of whatever place interests you most: that's what enables you to escape the tourism infrastructure, go off the beaten path, and really get to know a culture beyond just being a traveler. But in the narrow definition of usefulness to the traveler, it's still English and probably will be for the foreseeable future.
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Old Aug 31, 2015, 11:18 am
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by pinniped
Which language helps travelers the most? I think it's very hard to make an argument for anything other than English.

(1) You can use it to do business with most of the world's major airlines, hotels, rental car agencies, and other tourism-related businesses.

(2) It's such a commonly-taught 2nd language in so many countries that it becomes the common backup language when those people travel to another non-English speaking country. (I see this all the time when I travel outside the English-speaking world.)

(3) Most of those billion-plus Mandarin speakers aren't anywhere near the travel industry. Navigating the largest Chinese cities without speaking Mandarin is doable...there's a transportation infrastructure and all sorts of businesses, hotels, restaurants, etc. that cater to the international traveler.

I think there's great benefit to learning the native language of whatever place interests you most: that's what enables you to escape the tourism infrastructure, go off the beaten path, and really get to know a culture beyond just being a traveler. But in the narrow definition of usefulness to the traveler, it's still English and probably will be for the foreseeable future.
We have Spanish friends whose daughter works in CERN in Geneva. She speaks Spanish and English. Her husband is German speaking Swiss who also speaks English. So the language that husband and wife speak is the second language for both!
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Old Aug 31, 2015, 3:10 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by ms1664
Outside of France, that would be Switzerland, Belgium and Luxembourg, not the most populous countries there are.
Canada, much of West Africa, and Haiti can also be included.

Originally Posted by pinniped
Which language helps travelers the most? I think it's very hard to make an argument for anything other than English.

...

(2) It's such a commonly-taught 2nd language in so many countries that it becomes the common backup language when those people travel to another non-English speaking country?
This is the key. Most data about language speakers doesn't take into account either the second language aspect nor the dispersion aspect. So, Chinese may have far more first language speakers than English, but most are packed into one country and most of them are not involved in any activity whereby an international traveler or business man is likely to encounter them.

I don't recall the source of the article, but I recently saw something which analyzed languages by their importance rather than the number of speakers. The metrics they used included written works published in the language, Internet usage in that language, etc. While it was still a limited study, it was much more useful in analyzing the importance of a language.

My own thought is that if you use a combination of number of first and second language speakers, number of works published in the language, number of public signs in a language, etc. you'll get a much better picture of the most important languages for travelers. My thought is that the top 5 are probably all European, including English, Spanish, and French. Rounding out the top 5 are two of German, Portuguese, and Russian. Only after these, do you start to get to Chinese, Arabic, and Hindi.

The impact of European colonialism and hegemony will be felt for a long time. An example of this is when you visit a country where the primary language isn't a European language. You will inevitably find that the secondary language of the country, the one that is more likely to be on road/tourist signs after the primary language is a European one.
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Old Aug 31, 2015, 9:47 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by DrMaturin
So the language that husband and wife speak is the second language for both!
Standard situation when neither from the couple is from a country where English (or the language used for communication) is not first first language.

The classical case is (better say - was) in area of former Soviet Union where Russian served as lingua franca for all those 'soviet republics'. Even now, if you travel in those countries you have much higher chance to speak with somebody (older than 40) in Russian rather than in English.
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Old Aug 31, 2015, 11:14 pm
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by pinniped
Which language helps travelers the most? I think it's very hard to make an argument for anything other than English.

(1) You can use it to do business with most of the world's major airlines, hotels, rental car agencies, and other tourism-related businesses.

(2) It's such a commonly-taught 2nd language in so many countries that it becomes the common backup language when those people travel to another non-English speaking country. (I see this all the time when I travel outside the English-speaking world.)

(3) Most of those billion-plus Mandarin speakers aren't anywhere near the travel industry. Navigating the largest Chinese cities without speaking Mandarin is doable...there's a transportation infrastructure and all sorts of businesses, hotels, restaurants, etc. that cater to the international traveler.

I think there's great benefit to learning the native language of whatever place interests you most: that's what enables you to escape the tourism infrastructure, go off the beaten path, and really get to know a culture beyond just being a traveler. But in the narrow definition of usefulness to the traveler, it's still English and probably will be for the foreseeable future.
No kidding - I'm a native speaker of both English and Chinese. Chinese is only immensely helpful in China, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore - with decreasing levels of necessity. Even when I'm in Chinese-speaking countries, I still opt for English a good percentage of the time.

However, being able to read Chinese is actually pretty helpful, as that opens up Japan as well since many of the location names are in Kanji. It certainly makes for a good game to pass time - trying to read signs while passing through on the subway, bus, etc.
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Old Sep 1, 2015, 4:03 am
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by OskiBear
No kidding - I'm a native speaker of both English and Chinese. Chinese is only immensely helpful in China, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore - with decreasing levels of necessity. Even when I'm in Chinese-speaking countries, I still opt for English a good percentage of the time.

However, being able to read Chinese is actually pretty helpful, as that opens up Japan as well since many of the location names are in Kanji. It certainly makes for a good game to pass time - trying to read signs while passing through on the subway, bus, etc.
I know nothing of the language but I keep hearing "Chinese" as a language and I was always taught that it's primarily Mandarin and Cantonese and though they share a writing system, they are different languages. Is it getting into the argument of what constitutes a language/dialect or are they clearly separate?
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Old Sep 1, 2015, 7:23 am
  #24  
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I have to admit I personally overlook Cantonese because I primarily associate it with Hong Kong (in terms of major global cities), and there you can speak almost any language you like and find someone within 20 feet to speak it with you.

OK, mild exaggeration, but you can obviously speak English and do just fine in HK.
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Old Sep 1, 2015, 8:06 am
  #25  
 
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I would think the best choice is the one you are going to encounter most. Sure you can learn a popular language, but if everywhere you travel you don't need to use it, and you have no opportunity to practice it, you will forget it. I took french in high School, but never get to use it. Even when traveling to Quebec, most people there almost default to English, so I never practiced it and forgot most of it.
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Old Sep 1, 2015, 9:04 am
  #26  
 
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Im surprised that Hindi isn't 2nd considering that almost every south asian descent person can speak "some" hindi. Even arabs, afghans, sri lankans, west indians, guyanese, fijians, mauritians etc speak basic hindi as well. And then there is India Pakistan Bangladesh with populations in billions.
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Old Sep 1, 2015, 9:26 am
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Chattersking
Im surprised that Hindi isn't 2nd considering that almost every south asian descent person can speak "some" hindi. Even arabs, afghans, sri lankans, west indians, guyanese, fijians, mauritians etc speak basic hindi as well. And then there is India Pakistan Bangladesh with populations in billions.
I'm guessing the counts are the strict definition of fluent native speakers who also use it as their primary language. That's the only way you get to English at 335 million: the most narrow definition possible.

But even so, I wondered about Hindi as well. I guess India is fragmented enough into so many official languages that by this definition Hindi only gets 260 million...
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Old Sep 1, 2015, 11:44 am
  #28  
 
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Official languages and number of countries

English is considered to be the most versatile language of the world - it is one of the most commonly spoken language is business and communal circles.
"There are about 360 million people around the world who have learned English as a first language and 700 million who speak English as a second language. From: http://www.travelerstoday.com/articles/10098/20140531/the-5-world-languages.htm
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Old Sep 2, 2015, 3:03 pm
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by shuigao
I'm surprised that French isn't even in the top 10, given how many countries in Europe use it.
You mean, like 1/3 of Belgium (4M people), 1/3 of Switzerland (3M) and half of Luxembourg (.. all). Doesn't really make much of a difference. What really counts are the former French colonies in Africa.
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Old Sep 9, 2015, 1:46 am
  #30  
 
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I wonder if Hindi would jump higher up if combined with Urdu? Although both are very different in written form, when commonly spoken they are virtually the same - the same difference as between British English and American English. In spoken form the two tend to depart when moving away from common spoken form and into literature and poetry.
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