ren0312

Is business class too upmarket on some airlines nowadays? And hence possibly too Expensive? When you look at it all you need in business class is a good flat bed, while the upgraded ones by qantas on their a330 and American Airlines seem to be too much what is really should just be a seat that can be converted into a bed. And even comparing premium economy to this new business class the gap seems to be too large, it seems the ordinary business class you see on air France, aeroflot, and the old business class on qantas before the upgrade is much more appropriate in terms of the price point and what business class needs without making it too much like first class. The problem is that this makes business class too unnecessarily bloated and expensive, while pricing the ordinary business class traveler out of the market, who only wants a flat bed or a near flat bed with decent food at a sensible compared to economy class
class without having too pawn Buckingham Palace just to afford business class.

Too expand on my point, for example business class on American Airlines 777-300er is too much when they can they have a 2-3-2 7 across business class cabin that still had lie flat beds and adequate personal space at a much less expensive price.

EuropeanPete

British Airways would agree with you, but most other airlines appear to have research to suggest that people are happy to have their firms pay a premium for more space.

Let's see who ends up being right. I've certainly shifted most of my longhaul J traffic (not that there is much now) away from BA in the last few years.

nux

I disagree. The Cirrus type seats AA and other airlines have installed use the space quite well and so may take up a similar footprint to a 2-3-2 fully flat seat which would require more length per row.

Have you flown on any of these airlines and seats?

KevinDTW

On DL, at least, I'll say too expensive (usually for me, anyway), but definitely not too luxurious. I've seen too many trip reports showing FC on LH, CX, etc.

LondonElite

You're posting in the wrong website I think!

burbuja0512

YES.. AIRLINE LUXURY HAS RUINED MY LIFE.

Ok so that's a bit extreme, but I'm only partly joking. Here is what's happening:

1) I love international travel. My lifelong goal is to visit as many countries as possible.
2) I used to travel economy.. hated it, but sucked it up just to travel.
3) I switched jobs about 1 1/2 years ago. New company pays for business class.
4) I am now super spoiled and can never fly economy again.
5) I just booked a vacation for Dominican Republic, a relatively short flight - and I used extra miles to book first class. just because I can't handle being stuffed in the back.
6) I am now worried that I'll be forced to cut my recreational travel because I am such a snob and use too many miles on each flight for upgrades.

If biz class weren't so much better than economy, this never would have happened! Maybe they should just make economy a bit better so you don't feel like cattle being herded into a sardine can!

rankourabu

No?

Because very few people actually pay for it.

Most of the time it is (as the name implies) used to shuttle people around for work, paid for by employer/client.

And definitely not luxurious, especially on North American airlines. Business class is pretty pathetic when you hand out most of it to free upgrades.

flyer121

I love Business Class and the more luxurious the better.

burbuja0512

You have to go international before it's a major difference. Domestically, biz class just means free drinks and a bit more room to breathe.

Internationally, the US carriers seem to be pretty decent for the most part. Lay-flat bed and lots of food and drinks. That's luxury (compared to economy) in my book.

Of course, where I've gotten really spoiled are the lounges. I can't sit in an airport restaurant anymore. I'll go hungry rather than leave the lounge.

pinniped

My only question is: where is this fantasyland AA 773 with attentive, friendly service and oenophilic and culinary nirvana in J?

I've only gotten the one with surly FAs and undrinkable wine.

If we're going to accuse anyone of overdoing the J experience, it sure isn't AA.

As for the gap between J and Y being too large, I honestly don't have a good answer for why a legitimate Premium Economy product (say, 40" x 21" with palatable "call" wines and spirits) only exists on a small number of airlines. Perhaps because there are a few companies who fly their employees in J and a lot of companies that fly their employees in Y. Airlines may be concerned that a *good* PE product would nudge a lot of those J firms down to PE, but *not* upsell many Y firms to PE. If the corporate J buyers are cannibalized by PE, then the airline has to try to sell J to individual buyers, which cuts the price point in half.

MSPeconomist

Or the airlines specialize a bit, with some deciding to offer PE becasue they think it will be profitable on their routes. In the USA, some legacy carriers offer IFC on some routes and others do not. Another example is that AF and KLM are sort of like a single company, but AF has IFC and PE while KLM does not.

ou81two

Business class will be whatever the airlines can do to maximize revenues. Why is this an issue for you?

Often1

There is essentially no business class on domestic US. A couple of premium routes, bits and pieces of positioning and the like.

For international, it's all about market research. It's only too luxurious if the cost of the service drives the price past profitability.

As premium cabins are the lion's share of the profits on international routes, it strikes me as doubtful that any carrier is providing too much luxury for the market it serves.

If what you want is a no frills lie flat service so you can be rested on arrival, that's not in the cards in this day and age.

guv1976

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.1030 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)

For TATL travel, the OP might want to investigate the offerings of La Compagnie, as well as those of Open Skies.

TravelerMSY

The expense is in the weight and footprint of the seat- not so much the service or IFE. So if you want a flat bed that consumes the space of 3-4 coach seats, you're going to have to pay up for it.