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is it cruel when company policy only allow coach on 15-hour flight, even for the CEO?

is it cruel when company policy only allow coach on 15-hour flight, even for the CEO?

Old Jan 22, 2015, 12:35 am
  #61  
 
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Another point, related to comments above, is that lawyers and consultants who bill by the hour have very legitimate business reasons to take long flights in biz; any downtime they experience is lost revenue for their firm. Zombie-fy a partner or senior associate for an evening or a whole day upon arrival, or lock them up in a tight Y seat where they don't have enough space to work, and you have lost much more revenue than the marginal cost of a long-haul business class ticket.

I work for an enlightened law firm which pays to put me in business class on long flights, even when the client is only willing to pay for economy (in which case the firm bears the difference). They also expect that I can get some billable work done en route, or go straight to a meeting or take a long conference call upon arrival if needed, which is a fair deal.

Another employer I worked for would usually only fly me long-haul in economy, but left me alone on the day of arrival so I could recuperate as I wished. In the rare cases where they needed me in, say, Tokyo on Tuesday afternoon and then at a 14-hour negotiation session in Dubai first thing Wednesday morning, I could talk them into flying me overnight in business. Also a fair deal.

(FWIW, I feel like I perform better in meetings right after sleeping in J than when I fly in Y and sleep in a hotel bed the night before, but that could just be my natural defense mechanism against crappy flying experiences...)
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Old Jan 22, 2015, 2:05 am
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by cbn42
Just out of curiosity, what is the logic of allowing 5* hotels at the destinations? You can sleep better in J than in Y, but you can't sleep any better at a Ritz than at a Holiday Inn. Not that I've ever stayed at a Ritz, but I don't imagine the bed/mattress makes it any easier to sleep.
I find that it does make a difference. If you have a 9 hour flight, you pay several thousands for 9 hours. If you stay in a hotel for 3 nights, you pay just hundreds more for many hours of a better experience that provides not just better rest, but also better facilities (gym, pool, WiFi, etc).

For leisure travel, I never pay for J. The $3000/ticket I save (so $6000 if I travel with my wife) can go VERY far in terms of other vacation stuff (hotel, food, activities, shopping, etc)
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Old Jan 22, 2015, 2:23 am
  #63  
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Originally Posted by florin
I find that it does make a difference. If you have a 9 hour flight, you pay several thousands for 9 hours. If you stay in a hotel for 3 nights, you pay just hundreds more for many hours of a better experience that provides not just better rest, but also better facilities (gym, pool, WiFi, etc).

For leisure travel, I never pay for J. The $3000/ticket I save (so $6000 if I travel with my wife) can go VERY far in terms of other vacation stuff (hotel, food, activities, shopping, etc)
For most people, particularly vacation travel, that makes perfect sense. For business travel, sometimes not.
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Old Jan 22, 2015, 2:27 am
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by ft101
Not necessarily if the employee then needs a day either end before being capable of working to their best ability.

The cost of that is ???
An extra hotel night and a day of per-diem. Certainly cheap than thousands more for J.
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Old Jan 22, 2015, 3:29 am
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by pinniped
I might revise it to say that 95+% of paid tickets are in a some sort of economy fare bucket.

The F/J cabins are then filled with...
- The 5% who buy in one of the business class fare buckets, most often with a corporate discount
- A tiny, almost immeasurable fraction of a percent who buy a true F fare bucket
- FF upgraders
- Nonrevs
- Award users
- People on YUP/QUP/HUP type fares
- Etc.

Plus there is a sizable percentage of commercial airliners in the air with an all-Y configuration to begin with.

Now that I think about it, it might only be 2 or 3 percent on a paid premium cabin ticket.
how many carriers servicing longhaul with all-Y?

considering only longhaul. (a 2 hour seattle-sf hop honestly it doesnt matter where one sits.)

id venture that at least half of Biz are rev. whether on discounted corporate rates or otherwise.

no point in considering how "most of the public" flies because "most of the public" arent hauled overseas for a work assignment.
its not an executive club either - long distance travel isnt a vacation.
the typical traveler is your average office joe just valued enough to be needed somewhere to get a task done.

one would be selling oneself short being content cooped up in the back on a ride from LAX to SYD thinking the front cabin is reserved for captains of the industry.
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Old Jan 22, 2015, 6:15 am
  #66  
 
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My company pays only for economy. I don't have a problem with that. Most flying is domestic. Only a few of us senior people fly international 4-6 times a year, and I look to upgrade with miles, or look for a deep discount ticket and pay the difference. It has been workable. Frankly, travel is such a burden, it is worth it to me to make it as least objectionable as I can. Plus, I arrive in better shape to be more productive. And I admit that international J or F can be quite comfortable. And at least we are allowed to make our own arrangements. More recently, I notice they have been encouraging people not to wait to the last minute to buy their domestic economy tickets. Now that is wasting money. I've paid 700 for domestic first on a flight a colleague paid 1100 for economy on because he was a procrastinator.
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Old Jan 22, 2015, 7:47 am
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Tchiowa
But if I were given the choice of flying Coach and pocketing the difference, I'd fly Business. Don't need the money that badly.
I don't need the money badly, but I'd still take it in a heartbeat.

I've taken EK 380/777 in business to India three times in the last couple of years. Each time, I arrive somewhere between 4 and 8 am, and don't schedule meetings until 24+ hours later. I don't think flying coach would require a 2nd day of recovery
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Old Jan 22, 2015, 7:58 am
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Tchiowa
The majority in Business are in paid Business Class seats.
I think that rather depends on the airline. Some J products warrant paying the full whack, others are so Spartan or badly executed, they are mainly filled by upgraders.
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Old Jan 22, 2015, 10:29 am
  #69  
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Originally Posted by BearX220
I think that rather depends on the airline. Some J products warrant paying the full whack, others are so Spartan or badly executed, they are mainly filled by upgraders.
I don't agree. I think you'll find the majority of J seats are filled by people paying for them. What they are paying is a different story, but the majority are paying for the seats.

Few business travelers make purchasing decisions based on airline quality. It is price and schedule. Sure, most of my colleagues who are not passionate travelers know that SIA is better than UAL, but would not book SIA if UAL offers a lower fare. With corporate discounts, there is typically one clear airline with the lowest fare on any given route.
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Old Jan 22, 2015, 10:37 am
  #70  
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Originally Posted by CPRich
I don't need the money badly, but I'd still take it in a heartbeat.

I've taken EK 380/777 in business to India three times in the last couple of years. Each time, I arrive somewhere between 4 and 8 am, and don't schedule meetings until 24+ hours later. I don't think flying coach would require a 2nd day of recovery
I'd rather arrive and go straight into the meetings and then get out and go home.
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Old Jan 22, 2015, 11:09 am
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Originally Posted by PresRDC
I'd rather arrive and go straight into the meetings and then get out and go home.
If I took the Y seat and the money instead of J (not that anyone's offering...) on every trip I do I'd double my salary. Can't say I'd be able to turn that down.
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Old Jan 22, 2015, 2:00 pm
  #72  
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Originally Posted by PresRDC
I think you'll find the majority of J seats are filled by people paying for them. What they are paying is a different story, but the majority are paying for the seats.
I'd be interested in seeing your data if you can share any. When airlines report subpar PRASM performance it often coincides with subpar premium products that don't sell well at MSRP.
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Old Jan 22, 2015, 8:12 pm
  #73  
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I worked in a company which only pays Y, but usually sent us one day before, paying the extra hotel day, and at return, they gave us a day off to recover.

Good times.
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Old Jan 23, 2015, 2:55 am
  #74  
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My company is Y only but as we are going down the tubes with her at the helm, we are lucky they pay for travel at all. Still, the new system they are rolling out should take care of that.
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Old Jan 23, 2015, 3:08 am
  #75  
 
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Ex company had a very simple rule.

Every non-daytime flight had to be in J to ensure the employe can properly rest. Daytime flights were either coach (MCE) or prem. economy.
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