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is it cruel when company policy only allow coach on 15-hour flight, even for the CEO?

is it cruel when company policy only allow coach on 15-hour flight, even for the CEO?

Old Jan 21, 2015, 1:44 pm
  #46  
 
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.....

Last edited by brendog; Dec 6, 2015 at 2:02 pm
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 2:44 pm
  #47  
 
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90% of the world travels in economy. How is the cruel and unusual?
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 3:07 pm
  #48  
 
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I got upgraded numerous times over the years due to status and/or miles. But no company I have ever worked for has purchased a business/first ticket for me.

The OP doth protest a wee bit too much. The answer, as always is...if you don't like it, go work for a less "cruel" company.

And also notice whenever these discussions occur it's never "I think the company should pay for biz/first in order to make me more productive" arguments, it's always "I hate flying coach and my company is being mean" type arguments.

Yeah in some cases, when it's a matter of life and death (business speaking), you want the employee to get a good night's sleep on the flight. But for the vast majority of business travel, it's not worth the extra several thousand dollars when the employee can fly coach the day before and be as productive the following day, for a fraction of the cost, even when adding in an extra night's hotel and extra meals for a day.

Last edited by KoKoBuddy; Jan 21, 2015 at 3:15 pm
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 3:16 pm
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are we throwing out these 90-99% as a percentage of leisure travelers? or all flyers?

take a swiss a330: 22% of the seats are premium. say J is at 70% capacity and F is at 50%.... its still a 15% that sit in the nice chairs .

not that exclusive of a group. dont think its reserved for the creme de la creme.

if you bring enough value to the company, you absolutely deserve to fly in comfort. and if not, then to be compensated sufficiently to support upgrades at your discretion.

if neither of those are met, then theres real grounds to look elsewhere
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 3:38 pm
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Then pay/trade for upgrade instruments, or try to avoid traveling altogether.
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 3:50 pm
  #51  
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Originally Posted by deniah
are we throwing out these 90-99% as a percentage of leisure travelers? or all flyers?

take a swiss a330: 22% of the seats are premium. say J is at 70% capacity and F is at 50%.... its still a 15% that sit in the nice chairs .

not that exclusive of a group. dont think its reserved for the creme de la creme.
I might revise it to say that 95+% of paid tickets are in a some sort of economy fare bucket.

The F/J cabins are then filled with...
- The 5% who buy in one of the business class fare buckets, most often with a corporate discount
- A tiny, almost immeasurable fraction of a percent who buy a true F fare bucket
- FF upgraders
- Nonrevs
- Award users
- People on YUP/QUP/HUP type fares
- Etc.

Plus there is a sizable percentage of commercial airliners in the air with an all-Y configuration to begin with.

Now that I think about it, it might only be 2 or 3 percent on a paid premium cabin ticket.
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 6:16 pm
  #52  
 
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Aside from the airlines that fly Y-only configurations, even with full-service carriers the premium seat % is much smaller than 20% in short-haul ops.

And seats do not equal travellers. You can fill 20% of seats on planes with a lot smaller percentage of overall travellers. The premium seats tend to be filled with frequent flyers due to the logic of upgrades and awards (as well as the lifestyles of people who can afford F and J out of pocket), infrequent flyers tend to go with economy. So say 20,000 filled premium seats a year on a route may be occupied by just 5,000 different people whereas the 150,000 coach seats on the same route might be filled with something like 100,000 different people (just a calculation example).
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 6:48 pm
  #53  
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Originally Posted by pinniped
I might revise it to say that 95+% of paid tickets are in a some sort of economy fare bucket.

The F/J cabins are then filled with...
- The 5% who buy in one of the business class fare buckets, most often with a corporate discount
- A tiny, almost immeasurable fraction of a percent who buy a true F fare bucket
- FF upgraders
- Nonrevs
- Award users
- People on YUP/QUP/HUP type fares
- Etc.

Plus there is a sizable percentage of commercial airliners in the air with an all-Y configuration to begin with.

Now that I think about it, it might only be 2 or 3 percent on a paid premium cabin ticket.
Agree on F. Disagree on Business Class. The majority in Business are in paid Business Class seats. There are more than enough companies willing to pay the price for their people on long haul flights.
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 7:20 pm
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Originally Posted by Tchiowa
Agree on F. Disagree on Business Class. The majority in Business are in paid Business Class seats. There are more than enough companies willing to pay the price for their people on long haul flights.
And there's nothing wrong with it. Many orgs try to provide extra perks to staff in order to keep staff morale up and improve employee retention. If this is part of a company's efforts to keep staff happy then why not?

I suppose it comes down to the overall package offered. If a company declines to "treat" its staff to premium travel and it's your third time in as many weeks sitting cramped in coach from Dallas to Hong Kong with a large noisy family around you and you think to yourself: "What the *** am I doing here?" then it's probably time to look for an exit strategy. If you're still happy enough with your job for other reasons then you'll find a way to cope with it.
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 8:15 pm
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I've worked in two major fields. One was government. There used to be a rule that if you were traveling with a Minister, you could use a private plane. The opposition made a big deal out of this, so now, everybody flies commercial.

Most Members will fly Economy/Coach. This is partially a PR move, but we've got in serious trouble because a high ranking official paid for a first class ticket for her executive assistant to join her at a funeral. I've often told my political friends that if they want to get re-elected, get somebody taking their picture to get on the Greyhound. I don't care if they fly from Calgary to Edmonton or Calgary to Ottawa, but it would be a cool move to take the bus and be seen doing such.

Is Coach cruel? I suppose that depends on your compensation. If I were given the option of fifty bucks or a first class ticket, I'd probably opt for the ticket. But if I'm given the option of 500 bucks for a few hours discomfort, well, I'd go for the discomfort.

When I've been working in the private sector, we (including the CEO) expect everybody to fly coach or take the difference out of their commission. I fly coach, and if I want to spend the 90 bucks and upgrade to Plus (basically the front of the plane on Westjet) I pay for it with a company CC and hash it out with the bookkeeper on my return. That said, I've been never been asked to justify room service or a movie as I relax and get used to a new time zone. Even if it's a 50 dollar cheese plate and 3 cans of Orange Crush.

On Westjet (where I do almost 90% of my domestic travel) I find that sitting at the front or the rear isn't a concern. The chairs don't recline any differently. The only bonus is free alcohol (I don't drink) or a free sandwich. That's a 90 dollar sandwich in my eyes.

Cruel? No. Uncomfortable? If you like your job, and you're being paid or bonused out, put up with it.

CK
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 9:39 pm
  #56  
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Why would I find being given the "benefit" of arriving a day early to be a perk that compensates for flying in coach? Why would I want to be away from my family for one extra day? No thanks.

When I travel, it is to close deals worth at least 9 figures. The cost of the J ticket is insignificant compared to the value of the deal. I arrive the day before the meeting at the earliest and often go from the airport to the meeting with a short stop at the hotel (or arrival lounge) in between. Why? Because I usually have another meeting or other work obligation the day before the meeting.

Also, if you work for a company that can negotiate substantial corporate discounts, the cost of the J ticket is not going to be that much more than the cost of a Y ticket, especially in light of the value of the deals we are doing.

I would absolutely not use my personal miles to upgrade business travel. Those are our miles that the family earned by being away from my family and are for our use (yes, the family staying home endures hardships when one person is traveling for work).
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 11:23 pm
  #57  
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Originally Posted by mike_la_jolla
Lurker and visiting from the Luxury Forum. I'm the CEO and I set the travel policy. I fly 'Y' and expect everyone else to do so when on the company dime. It is simply not worth the cost to upgrade to business class unless done with points. That being said, I do allow 5* hotels at the destinations. And I allow adding a day before and after to recover.
Thanks for sharing. Just out of curiosity, what is the logic of allowing 5* hotels at the destinations? You can sleep better in J than in Y, but you can't sleep any better at a Ritz than at a Holiday Inn. Not that I've ever stayed at a Ritz, but I don't imagine the bed/mattress makes it any easier to sleep.
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 11:34 pm
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I refuse to fly anything more than 8hrs unless its at a min of premium economy and last year, this was written into our corporate travel policy.

Ive done it in Y, never again and thankfully Im a smarter traveller now that I don't have to.
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 11:54 pm
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Originally Posted by cbn42
Just out of curiosity, what is the logic of allowing 5* hotels at the destinations? You can sleep better in J than in Y, but you can't sleep any better at a Ritz than at a Holiday Inn. Not that I've ever stayed at a Ritz, but I don't imagine the bed/mattress makes it any easier to sleep.
The beds are actually a lot nicer at 5-star places. I have gotten my share of terrible beds at cut-rate hotels. Not to mention other "refreshing" amenities like gym, pool, room service, big bathtubs, etc...
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Old Jan 21, 2015, 11:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Ber2dca
And there's nothing wrong with it. Many orgs try to provide extra perks to staff in order to keep staff morale up and improve employee retention. If this is part of a company's efforts to keep staff happy then why not?

I suppose it comes down to the overall package offered. If a company declines to "treat" its staff to premium travel and it's your third time in as many weeks sitting cramped in coach from Dallas to Hong Kong with a large noisy family around you and you think to yourself: "What the *** am I doing here?" then it's probably time to look for an exit strategy. If you're still happy enough with your job for other reasons then you'll find a way to cope with it.
^

Originally Posted by cbn42
Thanks for sharing. Just out of curiosity, what is the logic of allowing 5* hotels at the destinations? You can sleep better in J than in Y, but you can't sleep any better at a Ritz than at a Holiday Inn. Not that I've ever stayed at a Ritz, but I don't imagine the bed/mattress makes it any easier to sleep.
I think your question is answered above. It's part of the perks that a company provides its employees. For many people travel is a burden. Ease that burden with a big of VIP treatment.
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