Now That There are No Longer Tariffs, How Can I be Bound by Airline Secret Fare Rules
Dec 16, 2014, 4:52 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,746
Now That There are No Longer Tariffs, How Can I be Bound by Airline Secret Fare Rules
Once upon a time airlines filed tariffs with the government. In theory, these tariffs were open to inspection at any airline ticket office. Because they were filed with the government and you had the right to inspect them, passengers were bound by the terms of those tariffs. These terms were incorporated by reference into every ticket.
Now, the airlines have contracts of carriage that are available on their websites. However, these are general rules, and not specific fare rules.
So, my question - what is the legal basis for passengers being bound by the fare rules that the airlines now have, which as far as I know are internal, not open to public inspection, and not filed with the government. In fact, recently Delta took steps to make it more difficult for members of the general public to find these rules by demanding that Expertflyer remove all Delta information from it's publicly available database.
In short, how can a passenger be bound by a fare rule which is not filed with the government, not open to public inspection, and generally not available to the passenger before the passenger books the ticket?
Now, the airlines have contracts of carriage that are available on their websites. However, these are general rules, and not specific fare rules.
So, my question - what is the legal basis for passengers being bound by the fare rules that the airlines now have, which as far as I know are internal, not open to public inspection, and not filed with the government. In fact, recently Delta took steps to make it more difficult for members of the general public to find these rules by demanding that Expertflyer remove all Delta information from it's publicly available database.
In short, how can a passenger be bound by a fare rule which is not filed with the government, not open to public inspection, and generally not available to the passenger before the passenger books the ticket?
Dec 16, 2014, 8:28 pm
#2
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They still exist
They still exist. CoC and Tariffs both govern. You may need to get a subscription to ATPCO to get them however.
Dec 16, 2014, 9:39 pm
#3
Used to be 'Travelergcp'
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The fare rules are usually available on the airline website during booking. It's not always obvious though. And any friendly airport agent can call them up and print them out for you. Finding historical fare rules is a little harder if the fare is no longer published.
On a trial booking on AA.com, it comes up on the second booking screen after you click on 'Fare Rules' and has everything listed there except MPM/routing rules.
You're bound by being a party to a contract, same as just about any other business transaction.
On a trial booking on AA.com, it comes up on the second booking screen after you click on 'Fare Rules' and has everything listed there except MPM/routing rules.
You're bound by being a party to a contract, same as just about any other business transaction.
Dec 17, 2014, 6:27 am
#4
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The fare rules are usually available on the airline website during booking. It's not always obvious though. And any friendly airport agent can call them up and print them out for you. Finding historical fare rules is a little harder if the fare is no longer published.
On a trial booking on AA.com, it comes up on the second booking screen after you click on 'Fare Rules' and has everything listed there except MPM/routing rules.
You're bound by being a party to a contract, same as just about any other business transaction.
On a trial booking on AA.com, it comes up on the second booking screen after you click on 'Fare Rules' and has everything listed there except MPM/routing rules.
You're bound by being a party to a contract, same as just about any other business transaction.
Now you can no longer see the fare calculation details on the ticket receipt, just the total fare and the various government imposed taxes and fees.
Is this really legal or does it violate some DOT regulation?
Dec 17, 2014, 9:09 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,746
Or, DOT violation or not, can a passenger be bound by the terms of a contract which incorporates the fare rules when those fare rules are not available to the customer before entering into the contract to travel?
When you book a ticket on the DL website, IME it's only possible to see the fare rules about fifty percent of the time. Often clicking on the link brings up a page saying "fare rules not available."
Now you can no longer see the fare calculation details on the ticket receipt, just the total fare and the various government imposed taxes and fees.
Is this really legal or does it violate some DOT regulation?
Now you can no longer see the fare calculation details on the ticket receipt, just the total fare and the various government imposed taxes and fees.
Is this really legal or does it violate some DOT regulation?
Dec 20, 2014, 5:21 pm
#6
Used to be 'Travelergcp'
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New Orleans
Programs: AA Plat, Marriott Gold, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 2,826
Ask your lawyer.
Seriously, the only way this is going to come up is through some kind of DOT intervention or you becoming a test case in federal court. And even though maybe the full fare rules in their raw form is hard to find- the main issues are very clearly summarized. Nonrefundability, advance purchase, change fees, etc. What's your angle here?
Seriously, the only way this is going to come up is through some kind of DOT intervention or you becoming a test case in federal court. And even though maybe the full fare rules in their raw form is hard to find- the main issues are very clearly summarized. Nonrefundability, advance purchase, change fees, etc. What's your angle here?
Dec 20, 2014, 5:51 pm
#7
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,580
I'm sure the airline will gladly give you a copy of the fare rules upon request, even before you book your ticket. Just go to the airport or call and ask.
Dec 21, 2014, 1:52 pm
#8
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Once upon a time airlines filed tariffs with the government. In theory, these tariffs were open to inspection at any airline ticket office. Because they were filed with the government and you had the right to inspect them, passengers were bound by the terms of those tariffs. These terms were incorporated by reference into every ticket.
Now, the airlines have contracts of carriage that are available on their websites. However, these are general rules, and not specific fare rules.
So, my question - what is the legal basis for passengers being bound by the fare rules that the airlines now have, which as far as I know are internal, not open to public inspection, and not filed with the government. In fact, recently Delta took steps to make it more difficult for members of the general public to find these rules by demanding that Expertflyer remove all Delta information from it's publicly available database.
In short, how can a passenger be bound by a fare rule which is not filed with the government, not open to public inspection, and generally not available to the passenger before the passenger books the ticket?
Now, the airlines have contracts of carriage that are available on their websites. However, these are general rules, and not specific fare rules.
So, my question - what is the legal basis for passengers being bound by the fare rules that the airlines now have, which as far as I know are internal, not open to public inspection, and not filed with the government. In fact, recently Delta took steps to make it more difficult for members of the general public to find these rules by demanding that Expertflyer remove all Delta information from it's publicly available database.
In short, how can a passenger be bound by a fare rule which is not filed with the government, not open to public inspection, and generally not available to the passenger before the passenger books the ticket?
Your reference to Expertflyer and Delta indicates you're looking at Hidden City or Throw Away ticketing or a similar stunt. And those aren't "fare rules". They are "Conditions of Carriage" and are easily viewed on the airline's web sites.
If I guessed wrong, sorry. Tell us what fare rule you're concerned about to get an accurate response.
Dec 21, 2014, 9:05 pm
#10
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, when I book a flight on AA, I "try" to read the fare rules [generally 2 pages of closely fit type--after a few minutes I quit...too complicated to deal with--I agree to the "terms and conditions" and hope for the best.
]
Dec 21, 2014, 9:13 pm
#11
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: MSN
Programs: AA, BAEC Gold
Posts: 3,929
I skim the rules for things such as whether the ticket can be changed and how much it will cost and then print them as a pdf so that I can try to decipher them if I really need to. It is simpler than trying to get access to them after you have booked.