Kagehitokiri

ok.

GUWonder

Some of those aren't US-EU.

I would note that Open Skies agreements aren't just about passenger service. Cargo is often part of the picture/driver too.

Kagehitokiri

oops.

agree re cargo, clearly major for EK load factor breakeven.
also agree EK is unique case. and they did have some trouble with italian government over MXP flight.
but if they were running into problems elsewhere, pretty sure it would be in news (US airline lobby)

callum9999

You never restricted it to Transatlantic - you yourself included Jet Airways Trans-Pacific. Then you switched to US-EU despite including Russia and Brazil in the list. In fact you don't make it clear what you're specifically talking about throughout your posts!

Are what routes approved? I really have no idea what you're talking about. Emirates are flying one route and looking at doing other unspecified routes - that is it. Why do you need to make it so complicated to follow?

Kagehitokiri

interesting, thanks. and that was why i raised 9W originally, because S Asian, not SE/E Asian. even though not ME. good point re Kuwait, had forgotten about those stories. think there was one again pretty recently?

thanks for correcting my labeling of 3 transatlantics. 5 US in my list - 2 SQ, 1 9W, 1 NZ, 1 EK.

original post (that i quoted in my reply to it) - "Europe-US" >

why are there not more transatlantic flights operated by asian airlines?
(if governments preventing it, i would agree would be nice to see changes.)

does seem like government, and lobbying cost, for example >
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom...#Fifth_freedom
i included partial timeline of EK launching MXP in my timeline of US complaining about ME airlines.

GUWonder

EY mentions report claiming US airlines benefitted from at least $70 billion (USD) in governmental subsidies since 2000:

http://news.yahoo.com/etihad-says-to...170049021.html

This "report" is in response to the US3's attempt to use a ridiculous "report" (on the ME3) to try to convince the U.S. Government to re-neg on multiple standing international legal agreements allowing for more competition by way of "Open Skies" treaties.

edgewood49

Like Anderson lame and will never happen. As a consumer would you fly on a old 763 refurbished or a much newer Airbus or 777 with real service, good food and good sitting

nkedel

Coach food and service are never good, regardless of airline and I'll take a 7-across 767 (or better still, an older 9-across/2-5-2 777-200) over a 10-across 777... the latter having been popularized by EK.

rwoman

I'd take a DL 767 with 2-3-2 seating over 3-4-3 on a EK 777 anytime. I've flown both; I avoid 3-4-3 seating like the plague.

nkedel

^^^ I've never actually been on a 3-5-3 747 or even been able to confirm that they really existed, but short of one of those 3-4-3 is currently the worst airline seating configuration out there (although if EK gets their proposed 3-5-3 configuration for the A380, that might be even worse.)

When a friend of mine who is a narrow-shouldered/skinny 5'2" says it's too crowded in coach on EK, it's too crowded larger than Peter Dinklage. I've not flown EK, but I've checked out the seats on the AA 77W (luckily only briefly going back from MCE) and they're godawful. The seats on the EK 777s may be marginally more comfortable than the absolutely miserable ones on AA's new 777 configurations, but they can't be much better; the physical space is the physical space.

Kagehitokiri

last time i flew with someone where it was 3 seats together instead of 2 seats, we bought the 3rd seat. +50% to ensure no neighbor.

would be nice to see more with 2 seats together, for those of us who fly Y.

GUWonder, amusing link. lets hope this stuff does not get that much worse during this US election cycle.

cmd320

Like coach food and service, I find regardless of airline all coach seats suck as well. I would never choose a coach product based on perceived additional comfort. Then again, I would never choose to fly coach intercontinental anyway.

Kagehitokiri

like a lot of FTers. i can understand especially from perspective of being forced to spend the time on plane. but im one of those (weird on FT?) who pays for accommodations rather than J/F. (im not one to keep costs low on everything - who also fly Y or sometimes premium awards.)

nkedel

Many of us have no alternative other than staying home for the majority of our international flying; when I was most actively flying international a few years ago, through judicious use of promotions and intentionally taking longer routings I was generating enough miles to upgrade pretty much every other trip.

These days with upgrades both harder to get and miles+copay being the norm, I find just paying for Premium Economy (on an airline with real Premium Economy, not fake like the US carriers) to be a better deal most of the time, and I can afford to mostly do that rather than regular coach. Sometimes when the price difference is huge, I can't, and on some routes it isn't an option.

That said, there are huge differences for some of us in coach comfort between seats, often as dependent on where on the aircraft and what aircraft type as the airline. While the bar for business class is now higher, in the old recliner-seat days on the US carriers, I'd actually take the best coach seats over the worst in J... and while additional comfort is not my only "top" consideration, it is in a mix of that, plus price, plus schedule, plus mile-earning opportunities mix in a balance where the "top" consideration varies between trips.

If those are all below a bar that qualifies as "they suck" for you, and it's not worth optimizing for "sucks less," well, must be nice to never have to fly coach internationally.

As for food and service, I can eat on the ground or bring my own food on board, generally to a much better standard (to my taste, at least) than anyone's J meals, and as for service, on long haul I sleep. Unless the seat sucks so much that I can't.

Kagehitokiri

agreed. (although some do travel less, including me for different reason.) and on top of that, those flying J/F probably are happy to have airline increase Y occupancy if it means good J/F.