"Invasion" by Arab Gulf Airlines.
Nov 24, 2014, 3:46 pm
#181
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Europe
Programs: EK plat, ex-FB gold, Accor plat
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People here are talking a lot about QR, but hell, what do you expect ? You are in a "muslim" country ruled by an absolute monarch, moreover overtly supporting Daesh... So don't be surprised if women have no rights, non-muslims have no rights, and non-qataris have no rights (even though true Islam religion is not at all all of these).
Foreign candidates probably have no knowledge (in this over-connected world ?!?), or have no choice but unemployment in their home countries. Sorry for this generalization, but, working knowingfully under those conditions must be driven by despair ...
There are indeed many examples of people not being able to quit Qatar without being ripped off by their sponsors or their employers, or without signing a full waiver.
So not flying QR makes sense to me.
But, if OP cares about employer's abuse, he should not focus only on so-called "arab" carriers. For example, it also makes sense not flying FR, whose multi-millionaire CEO publicly doesn't care a dime about employees AND customers.
I don't want a cent of my money to go into this guy's pocket.
It's all the more scandalous that we are talking about an european company, and not about an exotic airline with a different set of moral values.
This said, EK is not QR, and UAE is not Qatar. Absolutely obvious when you visit those two countries.
When I speak with EK FA's, I sense no big dis-satisfaction. Job is harder than US-EU legacy carriers, and turnover ratio is high but we cannot speak of labor abuse.
If you really care about labor abuse, don't buy Ipad/IPhone
Foreign candidates probably have no knowledge (in this over-connected world ?!?), or have no choice but unemployment in their home countries. Sorry for this generalization, but, working knowingfully under those conditions must be driven by despair ...
There are indeed many examples of people not being able to quit Qatar without being ripped off by their sponsors or their employers, or without signing a full waiver.
So not flying QR makes sense to me.
But, if OP cares about employer's abuse, he should not focus only on so-called "arab" carriers. For example, it also makes sense not flying FR, whose multi-millionaire CEO publicly doesn't care a dime about employees AND customers.
I don't want a cent of my money to go into this guy's pocket.
It's all the more scandalous that we are talking about an european company, and not about an exotic airline with a different set of moral values.
This said, EK is not QR, and UAE is not Qatar. Absolutely obvious when you visit those two countries.
When I speak with EK FA's, I sense no big dis-satisfaction. Job is harder than US-EU legacy carriers, and turnover ratio is high but we cannot speak of labor abuse.
If you really care about labor abuse, don't buy Ipad/IPhone
Nov 24, 2014, 9:45 pm
#184
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And how many of those Vertu devices do you have?
They may have final assembly in England but where are the electronics components made?
You know like all the Japanesee brands of cars assembled in the US but most of the components are made in Japan and assembled?
In any event, Vertu probably doesn't even represent 1% of sales.
If the working conditions at plants where Samsung or Motorola devices are made are a lot better, we'd certainly hear about it.
They may have final assembly in England but where are the electronics components made?
You know like all the Japanesee brands of cars assembled in the US but most of the components are made in Japan and assembled?
In any event, Vertu probably doesn't even represent 1% of sales.
If the working conditions at plants where Samsung or Motorola devices are made are a lot better, we'd certainly hear about it.
Nov 25, 2014, 5:01 am
#185
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
Programs: AS Million Miler/Marriott Lifetime Titanium/ IGH Ambassador
Posts: 5,990
People here are talking a lot about QR, but hell, what do you expect ? You are in a "muslim" country ruled by an absolute monarch, moreover overtly supporting Daesh... So don't be surprised if women have no rights, non-muslims have no rights, and non-qataris have no rights (even though true Islam religion is not at all all of these).
Foreign candidates probably have no knowledge (in this over-connected world ?!?), or have no choice but unemployment in their home countries. Sorry for this generalization, but, working knowingfully under those conditions must be driven by despair ...
There are indeed many examples of people not being able to quit Qatar without being ripped off by their sponsors or their employers, or without signing a full waiver.
So not flying QR makes sense to me.
But, if OP cares about employer's abuse, he should not focus only on so-called "arab" carriers. For example, it also makes sense not flying FR, whose multi-millionaire CEO publicly doesn't care a dime about employees AND customers.
I don't want a cent of my money to go into this guy's pocket.
It's all the more scandalous that we are talking about an european company, and not about an exotic airline with a different set of moral values.
This said, EK is not QR, and UAE is not Qatar. Absolutely obvious when you visit those two countries.
When I speak with EK FA's, I sense no big dis-satisfaction. Job is harder than US-EU legacy carriers, and turnover ratio is high but we cannot speak of labor abuse.
If you really care about labor abuse, don't buy Ipad/IPhone
Foreign candidates probably have no knowledge (in this over-connected world ?!?), or have no choice but unemployment in their home countries. Sorry for this generalization, but, working knowingfully under those conditions must be driven by despair ...
There are indeed many examples of people not being able to quit Qatar without being ripped off by their sponsors or their employers, or without signing a full waiver.
So not flying QR makes sense to me.
But, if OP cares about employer's abuse, he should not focus only on so-called "arab" carriers. For example, it also makes sense not flying FR, whose multi-millionaire CEO publicly doesn't care a dime about employees AND customers.
I don't want a cent of my money to go into this guy's pocket.
It's all the more scandalous that we are talking about an european company, and not about an exotic airline with a different set of moral values.
This said, EK is not QR, and UAE is not Qatar. Absolutely obvious when you visit those two countries.
When I speak with EK FA's, I sense no big dis-satisfaction. Job is harder than US-EU legacy carriers, and turnover ratio is high but we cannot speak of labor abuse.
If you really care about labor abuse, don't buy Ipad/IPhone
EXACTLY
Dec 3, 2014, 4:12 pm
#186
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Another Middle Seat Column on these airlines:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/persi...atestHeadlines
Persian Gulf airlines are shaking up the airline industry and its customers by offering high-quality service, often at lower prices than competitors. They are doing it in part by attracting employees from all corners of the globe, many of them from impoverished, low-wage areas. The workers live under close supervision in company housing in the United Arab Emirates or Qatar, work long hours and abide by contract terms that other parts of the world find objectionable. All three Gulf airlines—Etihad, Qatar and Emirates—may fire women if they become pregnant.
“We offer a tremendous opportunity, and if people don’t like it, they don’t have to give notice if they want to leave us,” Ms. Tiedt says.
Training employees to react as a team in an emergency is one of the great challenges of the globalized airline industry. The Persian Gulf airlines operate in English, but it’s the second language for almost all their workers. New hires typically must live with someone from another country to avoid segregating into cliques or lapsing into native language instead of honing English skills.
“We offer a tremendous opportunity, and if people don’t like it, they don’t have to give notice if they want to leave us,” Ms. Tiedt says.
Training employees to react as a team in an emergency is one of the great challenges of the globalized airline industry. The Persian Gulf airlines operate in English, but it’s the second language for almost all their workers. New hires typically must live with someone from another country to avoid segregating into cliques or lapsing into native language instead of honing English skills.
Emirates, the largest of the Gulf carriers and now the fourth-largest airline in the world by passenger traffic, says it receives about 400,000 applications a year for jobs across the company. The airline’s employees span 143 nationalities. Most new hires are in their mid-20s. Many have had a prior job in hotels, restaurants or even other airlines and understand basic principles of customer service.
Qatar’s salaries for cabin crew start at $24,000 a year tax-free, fairly close to the norm in the U.S. and Europe. Captains start at a very competitive $200,000 a year and first officers at $130,000 a year.
Emirates defends its work rules by noting that 11,000 of its 53,000 employees have been with the company for 10 years or more. Even though many pilots laid off at U.S. and European airlines in the last recession found work with the fast-growing Gulf carriers, there hasn’t been a mass exodus of pilots when hiring resumed in the U.S. and Europe, Mr. Daly says.
Emirates defends its work rules by noting that 11,000 of its 53,000 employees have been with the company for 10 years or more. Even though many pilots laid off at U.S. and European airlines in the last recession found work with the fast-growing Gulf carriers, there hasn’t been a mass exodus of pilots when hiring resumed in the U.S. and Europe, Mr. Daly says.
Dec 4, 2014, 9:52 am
#187
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DFW
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Posts: 259
Sounds like the legacies don't like having the tables turned on them. They merge with each other and reduce competition in the name of survival and convince their regulators it's A-OK. Then competition shows up and they cry foul.
Perhaps government subsidization is part of the reason these carriers can offer such great products. To that I say, great! I'd rather the government spend my money on making our transportation system top notch instead of the laughing stock of the developed world.
Perhaps government subsidization is part of the reason these carriers can offer such great products. To that I say, great! I'd rather the government spend my money on making our transportation system top notch instead of the laughing stock of the developed world.
Dec 4, 2014, 1:45 pm
#188
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
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Posts: 5,990
Sounds like the legacies don't like having the tables turned on them. They merge with each other and reduce competition in the name of survival and convince their regulators it's A-OK. Then competition shows up and they cry foul.
Perhaps government subsidization is part of the reason these carriers can offer such great products. To that I say, great! I'd rather the government spend my money on making our transportation system top notch instead of the laughing stock of the developed world.
Perhaps government subsidization is part of the reason these carriers can offer such great products. To that I say, great! I'd rather the government spend my money on making our transportation system top notch instead of the laughing stock of the developed world.
Dec 4, 2014, 5:23 pm
#189
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Dec 5, 2014, 10:14 am
#192
Join Date: Jan 2011
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^^^^^^
when I fly international it's not on US carrier metal as I prefer clean airplanes reasonably comfortable seating, eatable food and at least a FA that actually smiles !!!
One can not believe that UA is International Airline of the year, how much did that one cost!!
when I fly international it's not on US carrier metal as I prefer clean airplanes reasonably comfortable seating, eatable food and at least a FA that actually smiles !!!
One can not believe that UA is International Airline of the year, how much did that one cost!!
Dec 5, 2014, 10:18 am
#193
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DFW
Programs: IHG Plat, AA GLD, DL FO, Natl Elite
Posts: 259
^^^^^^
when I fly international it's not on US carrier metal as I prefer clean airplanes reasonably comfortable seating, eatable food and at least a FA that actually smiles !!!
One can not believe that UA is International Airline of the year, how much did that one cost!!
when I fly international it's not on US carrier metal as I prefer clean airplanes reasonably comfortable seating, eatable food and at least a FA that actually smiles !!!
One can not believe that UA is International Airline of the year, how much did that one cost!!
I wish it was easier to redeem AA miles for LAN flights. They've got 787s from MIA to SCL now. Meanwhile AA are still flying the 767s.
Dec 5, 2014, 10:51 am
#194
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mountain Time Zone
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It's amazing how much better TATL Y in VS and AF are compared to my trips on AA to South America. Despite being coach they still somehow feel more comfortable than AA Y, and the service is much better. Free drinks for crying out loud, and planes that weren't made by the Wright brothers.
I wish it was easier to redeem AA miles for LAN flights. They've got 787s from MIA to SCL now. Meanwhile AA are still flying the 767s.
I wish it was easier to redeem AA miles for LAN flights. They've got 787s from MIA to SCL now. Meanwhile AA are still flying the 767s.
Dec 9, 2014, 1:38 am
#195
Moderator: Manufactured Spending
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,580