Annalisa12

I think the airline needs to do more about it on checking in or at the gate rather than leave it to other customers on the plane to deal with.

Possibly making it less embarrassing for the POS so they would be able to get 2 seats or talk about it easily.

Loren Pechtel

I disagree. Maybe 80% works but the high numbers don't. The only fix is wider seats and that means fewer seats per plane--costs go up and runway congestion goes up. Since many airports are basically at peak already that means fewer passengers can fly.

Loren Pechtel

Yeah, we have sizers at the gate. How about a seat sizer? You don't fit, you need two BPs.

chollie

Keep in mind, a POS is not necessarily obese or selfish about everyone else's comfort.

A POS can also be an athlete or someone with an athlete's build. No extra body fat on the players in the WNBA, but I wouldn't want to be seated next to one in coach. And some men can be very fit and very lean and still have extraordinarily wide shoulders - imagine sitting next to any of the men on the US Olympic men's swim team.

nkedel

Worst neighbor I've ever had was one of those guys; very tall (short on legroom even in a fairly generous bulkhead seat), not thick in the middle but with humongous shoulders. The unlucky SOB was stuck in the middle seat, I was in the aisle, and rather small woman traveling with him was in the window -- I assumed it was his wife.

Every time I leaned further out towards the aisle to keep his shoulders from pressing against me, he'd relax more into my space. Finally, I'd had enough (and my side was hurting from being bent sideways over the aisle armrest and I just sat bolt upright, pushing him back into his space.

That got a loud objection, the FA came over, and he complained about me and they chatted over the lack of space -- but there was no alternative seating, and while she was sympathetic to him she said nothing to me one way or another in response to his objections (while thick in the middle, I had narrow shoulders and was quite clearly only in my own seat.)

Segments

One solution for broad shouldered seat mates is to alternate reclining seats. Window / aisle in one position while middle is in opposite, typically with the middle taking the upright position works best.

Often1

This is a matter of geometry and cubic volume, not social commentary. How a person comes not to fit into the space allotted is irrelevant to any other person's safety or comfort (the former being critical).

If one is too obese, too tall, too broad-shouldered or whatever, to fit into the standard seat, one must find a solution which could include finding a seat with more pitch, purchasing the adjoining seat, flying another carrier or not flying.

In the first instance, employees, but especially GA's ought to keep an eye on this. FA's also need to police this as they do see the passengers seated, and finally passengers have some responsibility when the carrier drops the ball.

Sure it's unpleasant, but this is about safety. Make a point of being polite but firm with the FA and making it plain that the carrier had an obligation not to have boarded the passenger who could not safely occupy the space allotted. Make it plain that if it is not dealt with (prior to departure) that you will deal with it as a safety issue with both DOT and with FAA's Flight Safety people directly.

Oxnardjan

I don't understand why the airlines don't have a row of seats that are configured of 2 wider seats instead of 3 seats and charging an up charge for those seats. This would save a POS from embarrassment on boarding. This seat should come with a warning disclaimer that you might be moved if you don't need the seat for being handicapped or a POS. I think the 50% up charge would be a discouragement for a general passenger buying the seat.

plinko83

Domestically, they do. It's called first class.

nkedel

Unfortunately, they already have it, and it's hugely more expensive ... called, on most airlines, "first class."

Midwest Express at one point had Douglas planes (normally 2-3) configured 2-2 with less seat pitch than usual domestic first, for competitive-ish coach fares. Always liked them, although the routings and times only let me use them a couple of times.

Transpacificflyer

As already mentioned, there is F class and even extra room seats in Y. However, the reason why there is such hesitation to address the issue is the threat of litigation. Allegations of discrimination are expensive to defend against and include an unpredictability especially with the human rights tribunals typical of some countries or juries in some US states. The EU tribunal skews to favouring plaintiffs when there are claims of discrimination.

I am not Slim Jim and could use with dropping some weight, so I do sympathize with the big people. However, the seats are sold as they are and the obligation is on the plus sized folks to pay for an additional seat if they cannot fit in a normal seat. After having had a morbidly obese man with flatulence make my life difficult on a 3 hr flight, I am not hesitant to say something now and honestly, If I hurt someone's feelings, I don't care. These people know, but they just don't care about the impact they have on others. If they don't care, I'm not going to walk on eggshells for them.

Bakpapier

While I sympathize very much with obese people, as there are also obese people who can do little about it (for example I know someone with knee injury, she used to be very sportive but once she got the knee injury she had trouble walking and she became quite fat, and people can have thyroid issues etc.), there should be some way to stop oversized people from boarding in an economy seat.

The airlines should have the responsibility to check if oversized people can fit in the seat (why not place dummy seats in the terminals, and ask people to sit in them to see if they fit? perhaps do this in an enclosed space so they are not put to shame). If they do not, it's either not boarding, or forced to pay an upgrade to business class or an extra space seat. Or two seats.

If the airline would neglect this duty and the oversized person would board, it'd be up to the airline to solve the issue (for example by upgrading the oversized person or giving them 2 seats).

WillCAD

They could, but they choose not to. I would guess that they choose not to for several reasons:

1. It would not make them any MORE money than the current situation.
2. It might make them LESS money than the current situation.
3. The POS encroachment problem is a minor one to the airlines, as it seldom causes issues.
4. "Oh, you're going to tell me I need to fly *in the back of the plane* just because I'm a little overweight, huh? You discriminatory bad people! I'm calling my lawyer!"
5. "Oh, you're going to charge me more for my seat just because I'm disabled? I'm calling my lawyer!"

To those who have replied to Oxnardjan that "they already have that, it's called first class" - NO, they don't. F is a different class of service - it includes different food and beverage offerings, different boarding order, etc. What Oxnardjan is suggesting is several larger seats in economy, with no higher service, boarding with the other E passengers, etc.

I tend to think that these seats could be marketed not just for larger people, but would also work well for handicapped people, as well. It's mighty difficult to get some of the mobility challenged into the current E seats, so having a few larger seats with more clearance for the aisle wheelchairs and the handicapped passengers' caregivers to move around would improve the experience all around and speed boarding for everybody.

I tend to agree with you. This practice is sometimes followed in theme parks, and I have found it to be very useful - I try the seat outside of the ride, and I'll know before I wait in an hour-long queue whether I'm going to fit.

However, such seats would require space in the airports, which the airlines lease by the square foot, and would also not help much, since by the time most travelers reach the airport they've already paid for their ticket. With the current overbooking practices, it's often difficult to juggle the seats two hours before a flight to find a second seat for a POS without someone getting bumped.

As I said above, the POS encroachment problem is a minor one for the airlines, and anything they do to address it has the risk of creating an even bigger problem. They'd rather have the occasional passenger who doesn't fit in the seat and throws a hissy than spend a lot of money on new equipment, space, procedures, and advertisement to solve the problem. They also don't want to risk lawsuits over ADA issues, or bad press.

The best thing the airlines can do is to establish a reasonable seat encroachment/IDB policy (which most, if not all, of them have), and to train their flight crews to enforce the policy consistently and fairly, which most of them seem to be doing (or there wouldn't be so many "too fat to fly" outrage stories in the news).

As a POS who doesn't fit in a single seat, I find WN's policy to be more than just fair, it's downright magnanimous, because they allow you to book a second seat (and pay for it) under the POS policy, and they give you pre-board status and a 'reserved seat' document for your second seat, but they will refund the cost of the second seat in full after the flight, even if the flight was oversold.

Rebelyell

There really is no need for seats that wide. Converting three 17-inch-wide seats into two would result in seats 25.5 inches wide. Very, very few obese flyers need that much room. However, taking out a single seat (or two on wide-body-planes) and spreading the additional space over an entire row would make the seats wide enough for virtually everyone.

Of course, the problem is we all want something different; most people seem to care a lot more about legroom than seat width. I'd love to be able to pay a premium and buy a wider seat. I'm 5-10 and just under 200, so not fat beyond belief, but the seats are just uncomfortable. On the other hand, I'm willing to stretch my legs forward rather than demanding to sit "prim and proper," so legroom doesn't matter at all. Although I don't prefer it, I don't care if the seatback in front of me is right in front of my face, so long as it doesn't hit me in the mouth. I just want more width so I won't be touched by strangers.

I do think whatever the airline offers should be available for everyone to purchase. Nobody should get anything for free at the expense of other flyers. If the thinnest person in the world wants to pay extra for a wide seat, that should be their right.

Taoyuan

Yesterday I sat to a massive guy, by far the biggest I've ever sat next to on a plane. Thankfully, we had both been upgraded to F so it was totally fine. That would have been awful in coach.

Has to be pretty awful to be that fat, knowing that everyone on the plane is staring at you and praying you don't sit next to them. And then knowing you're squishing people and ruining their flights.