Tchiowa

There was an article about a week ago in SFGate about the 1%. According to them, $250k gets you into the top 1% if you live in Idaho. But in Washington DC it takes roughly $700k to get into the 1%. So, depending where you live, $200k is anywhere from wealthy to upper middle class.

BearX220

Quite true. But there are a hell of a lot more zip codes where a $200k household income makes you "wealthy" than those where you're just a face in the crowd.

darthbimmer

Sure, but many of those $200K jobs depend on you living in high-cost areas.

Maxxis

Yes I would agree that your view is very distorted by living the the Bay area. I lived in the Deep South for most of my highschool and college years and saw poverty firsthand. Even today, the average household income in Mississippi or Alabama is around 35,000 to 40,000 annually. Hell, 250,000 dollars a year would qualify you as upper class in these states.

As for FT's skewed view on travel, I spent around 20K a year on plane tickets and accomodation, accrue around 80K miles traveling for business. Of course, all this travel were reimbursed by the employer. I would hardly ever buy J tickets for
personal travel unless there are special deals going on.

satman40

A 200k job, and a 100k take home is not a lot of bucks when you have an 80 hour grind to make it.

So it is not all that great at the top 1%. Plus everyone else gets a 7 year head start.

Tchiowa

7 year head start??

moondog

I'm guessing the post you quoted was an inference to the fact that medical doctors in the US typically can't start generating real money until they are in their late 20s.

GUWonder

It's also far from common, even for most of the top 2-3%.

Of the segment of US households making $200k to $300k, most such households aren't buying even one annual leisure travel roundtrip ticket in business class for long-haul flights. Even when substantially cheaper than what you mention.

The vast majority of even the top 2-3% of US households this year aren't buying a $6000 ticket for personal travel. Most such households aren't even buying a way more discounted long-haul business class ticket, when it comes to personal travel.

GUWonder

Yes, that in combination with education debt levels end up skewing returns over time.

That said, a huge proportion of the people who end up in the top 2% on the income side ended up there with relatively little to no educational debt because the parents/family are in the top 2-3% and were able to pick up most of the tab for them.

Even lawyers at the highest-paying firms end up sometimes making less money on an hourly basis than some paralegals. And if you adjust things for educational debt levels, it's not so pretty unless you are from a top 2-3% family who picked up much or all of the tab for schooling.

There are lots of households which make $200k-250k in relatively expensive US cities but have such debt burdens that long-haul business class flying for leisure purposes is out of the realm of being responsibly affordable.

Tchiowa

True, but medical doctors are far from being the only ones who make the $200k or more incomes. In fact I suspect that they are a tiny minority. Tech experts, consultants, etc. seem more likely.

moondog

I was only providing an explanation for the post you questioned.

CitizenWorld

I'll point out that only medical doctors who've reached the end of their training pathway make that sort of money, the pay in the medical world is pretty exponential. A lot of us start out only making about 70k-ish a year.

BearX220

Of course, there are plenty of households making $200k+ in cities like NY and SF who argue that with high housing costs and tuition bills, they have to pinch pennies as much as the next folks. They have a point. But they're outliers who won't get much empathy from a $40k household. And high-income households have an idea of what's "essential" (yoga classes, $7 coffees, Sunday brunch out) that doesn't stick in most of the world. That often includes leisure travel.

The real question is, what are you spending out of your own pocket on travel -- either leisure/family trips or upgraded business trips? In my own case it's probably $7,000-$8,000 per year, not counting mileage/point redemptions (which usually go to other family members). As long as I have a kid in college I will not be buying my own J tickets, especially not two at a time, but I have bought premium economy for long haul without blinking.

gglave

Definitely not unheard of on FT and demonstrates that many here are in a very different socioeconomic strata than the average middle class, and that many FTers definition of 'middle class' is way off...

moondog

I disagree. Shelling out $12,000 on a plane ticket or five does not --in and of itself-- support your conclusion.

Here in China, the salaries we pay our younger employees are very low by Western standards (e.g. less than $20k/year), but 90% of this often ends up in the bank because their cost of living is minuscule (commute to/from work = $30/month, lunch = $40/month, dinner = parents provide). Most use the windfall to invest in real estate or starting their own businesses, but a sizable contingent travels in high style once or twice a year. Why? Because they can, and because they value these experiences.