Are you ready to fly PEOPLExpress? Again??
#1
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Are you ready to fly PEOPLExpress? Again??
Apparently there is someone out there convinced that they have the next brilliant idea: Take an out of the way airport, gas-guzzling planes and a questionable employee role definition policy and make a new airline out of the deal. What is even more ironic is that the COO is a guy who was around in the original PEOPLExpress days, so he knows that the end result is a company that couldn't make a go of it. Of course the old version was the originator of unbundling and fees, while the new one promises to avoid them in most cases.
There's also the part where they only expect to fly 12 departures from Newport News - their hub - daily at launch, scaling up to 25 in a few years. And they're buying 737-400s, the least fuel-efficient of the 737 product line. They're jamming 158 seats inside, leaving passengers with a soul- and knee-crushing 28.5" pitch on average and requiring a 4th FA to meet FAA staffing minimums.
It is almost hard to believe that they are serious. But apparently they really are.
Read more:
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/thewan...ke-a-comeback/
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...vived/627058/1
There's also the part where they only expect to fly 12 departures from Newport News - their hub - daily at launch, scaling up to 25 in a few years. And they're buying 737-400s, the least fuel-efficient of the 737 product line. They're jamming 158 seats inside, leaving passengers with a soul- and knee-crushing 28.5" pitch on average and requiring a 4th FA to meet FAA staffing minimums.
It is almost hard to believe that they are serious. But apparently they really are.
Read more:
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/thewan...ke-a-comeback/
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...vived/627058/1
#3
Join Date: May 2011
Location: AUS
Programs: DL GM, F9 50K, NK Gold...AS MVP 50K soon?
Posts: 213
There are a few things that BoardingArea overlooks on this.
The US 734 has three lavs and a lot of galley space, plus a closet up front. If you kill the closet and some of the galley space, then take out a lav, you get more space for seats. These moves are admissible since the flights currently scheduled top out at ~750 miles, or ~1:45 in the air, with non-Florida destinations clocking in at or less than 450 miles.
The result? Room for another row without worsening legroom. I don't know the size of the galley/closet/lav areas, but my SWAG would be that, with WN-style staggered-row seating, you could still end up with 30-31" after adding a row and a half (and swapping the three rows of US 734 F for three rows of E).
Going back to PEX's route map for a second, the 30-31" pitch is reasonable, given the length of their proposed flights. Their competitor to Orlando, Allegiant, has 30" seat pitch now. AirTran has 30" in E on their 717s (which will be going away). US Airways doesn't run mainline into PHF, so their planes are going to be cramped, and Delta mixes regional with M88s, which have 30-33" seat pitch, comparable to what PEX will be offering (remember the exit row). Is it going to be as comfortable as STRETCH on a Frontier A3xx? Nope, but for flights as short as those planned people aren't going to complain too much.
As for fuel consumption, the 734 will actually be on the more efficient end of the spectrum as far as flights out of the airport go, particularly since the AirTran 717s will be gone when PEX arrives. They'll be competing against CRJs (the tiny ones), props (which are probably comparable on fuel per ASM but more on maintenance), Delta M88s and Allegiant M80s. None of those aircraft are particularly modern, and other than the Allegiant M80 all have lower capacity (some by a lot) vs. the 734s. So, if PEX can fill the planes, they aren't at a cost disadvantage vs. their local competitors on airframe/fuel.
There's also the fact that, for short hops (half of their destinations) fuel costs won't be a huge part of the equation. If they can fill planes with $69 fares to EWR, PVD and PIT they should still be able to make money.
The real question here is whether the company can fill the planes. The catchment area for PHF is limited due to ORF (and WN) being nearby, and they have a little bit of competition on their Orlando route from Allegiant. Even if they pick up 100% of AirTran's former passenger base (despite switching to different destination airports for New York and Boston), they'll have to seriously stimulate traffic in order to fill their larger aircraft multiple times per day. Maybe they've done their homework and can actually do this, but it will be interesting to watch.
The US 734 has three lavs and a lot of galley space, plus a closet up front. If you kill the closet and some of the galley space, then take out a lav, you get more space for seats. These moves are admissible since the flights currently scheduled top out at ~750 miles, or ~1:45 in the air, with non-Florida destinations clocking in at or less than 450 miles.
The result? Room for another row without worsening legroom. I don't know the size of the galley/closet/lav areas, but my SWAG would be that, with WN-style staggered-row seating, you could still end up with 30-31" after adding a row and a half (and swapping the three rows of US 734 F for three rows of E).
Going back to PEX's route map for a second, the 30-31" pitch is reasonable, given the length of their proposed flights. Their competitor to Orlando, Allegiant, has 30" seat pitch now. AirTran has 30" in E on their 717s (which will be going away). US Airways doesn't run mainline into PHF, so their planes are going to be cramped, and Delta mixes regional with M88s, which have 30-33" seat pitch, comparable to what PEX will be offering (remember the exit row). Is it going to be as comfortable as STRETCH on a Frontier A3xx? Nope, but for flights as short as those planned people aren't going to complain too much.
As for fuel consumption, the 734 will actually be on the more efficient end of the spectrum as far as flights out of the airport go, particularly since the AirTran 717s will be gone when PEX arrives. They'll be competing against CRJs (the tiny ones), props (which are probably comparable on fuel per ASM but more on maintenance), Delta M88s and Allegiant M80s. None of those aircraft are particularly modern, and other than the Allegiant M80 all have lower capacity (some by a lot) vs. the 734s. So, if PEX can fill the planes, they aren't at a cost disadvantage vs. their local competitors on airframe/fuel.
There's also the fact that, for short hops (half of their destinations) fuel costs won't be a huge part of the equation. If they can fill planes with $69 fares to EWR, PVD and PIT they should still be able to make money.
The real question here is whether the company can fill the planes. The catchment area for PHF is limited due to ORF (and WN) being nearby, and they have a little bit of competition on their Orlando route from Allegiant. Even if they pick up 100% of AirTran's former passenger base (despite switching to different destination airports for New York and Boston), they'll have to seriously stimulate traffic in order to fill their larger aircraft multiple times per day. Maybe they've done their homework and can actually do this, but it will be interesting to watch.
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Well, well, well, Isn't old PeopleExpress has returned? I can't imagine it what happened the old PeopleExpress is cease operation back in early 80s.
#6
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Programs: Delta Skymiles
Posts: 29
According to an article in the Daily Press, Michael Morisi is president and COO. The airline will initially fly to Pittsburgh, Providence, R.I., Newark, N.J., Orlando and West Palm Beach and be based in Newport News, VA (PHF).
#9
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: PHX
Posts: 3,796
Partly the expansion, and partly from their fixed fares being uncompetitive with other airlines. They were more expensive than other airlines' advance purchase fares, and less expensive for last-minute fares, leaving money on the table.
#10
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: LGA - JFK
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Posts: 2,589
I flew it once out of EWR but my younger brother going to SUNY-Buffalo flew it a # of times, it was still considered dirty cheap in those days and for college kids on breaks, a carry-on was sufficient and security at the airport was quick & simple, unlike nowadays. Boarding the flight was a mad house with the open seating - but it gave other competing airlines using EWR hub a run for their money & passengers loved it for these quick, short "shuttle" flights. It was a PITA to get out to EWR and back - living/working in DC in those days, IAD-LGA fares were as low as $49 OW on UA, heck - it was good with People Express "competing" in the matrix.
In many ways, aren't we flying the "ghosts" or shadwos of People Express these days - narrowed coach seats, fees & charges for everything, plus checked luggage fees, and not even a bag of peanuts or cold sandwich or snack even on a transcon flight unless flying up-front or BYO ... LOL
In many ways, aren't we flying the "ghosts" or shadwos of People Express these days - narrowed coach seats, fees & charges for everything, plus checked luggage fees, and not even a bag of peanuts or cold sandwich or snack even on a transcon flight unless flying up-front or BYO ... LOL
#11
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 765
This sounds eerily similar to Skybus, except with the hub of Newport News instead of Columbus.
They can get the market of places that are on the borderline of flying and driving, and try to push people to fly instead of drive with cheap fares. A 6-8 hour trip is borderline for me.
They can get the market of places that are on the borderline of flying and driving, and try to push people to fly instead of drive with cheap fares. A 6-8 hour trip is borderline for me.
#12
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 528
And they're buying 737-400s, the least fuel-efficient of the 737 product line. They're jamming 158 seats inside, leaving passengers with a soul- and knee-
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/thewan...ke-a-comeback/
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...vived/627058/1
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/thewan...ke-a-comeback/
http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...vived/627058/1
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: AA Gold AAdvantage Elite, Rapids Reward
Posts: 38,290
If you don't like to flying on People Express. Then you have find something else. I would consider to order new 737-8MAX or A320neo, too. Maybe PEX will have lease some 738 aircraft for long-haul flight.