BeatCal

Easy one

Which airline club (and where) banned the use of lap tops for many years as one was supposed to relax, not work

jlemon

22. Correct! Aircraft was a Boeing 720-024B (N57201).

Alaska operated three other non turbofan Boeing 720s including one B720-022 (N7217U, formerly flown by United) and two B720-062 models (N720V and N720W which were re-registered as N301AS and N302AS. I think these last two 720s were formerly operated by Pacific Northern but I'm not completely sure).

And Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!

WHBM

I believe they actually took all three of the former PNA non-turbofan aircraft that Western had run on for several years after buying the carrier out, the two mentioned which had been bought new plus their third, originally with Aer Lingus and then Braniff before PNA bought it secondhand. The ex-United one was a fourth, the whole lot with tail numbers N301-4AS. And sorry, but that's not off the top of my head; I've looked it up.

Anyway, enough of this detail, all of you over there. Congratulations for Thanksgiving to all the regulars and our many viewers over in the USA. Now then, back to those turkeys !

I suppose we could have a little fitting bonus question. Which commercial airliner was the worst turkey ever ?

jrl767

Happy Turkey Day indeed!

I'd guess you're going to get about 45 opinions from the 12-15 regulars, and no telling how many from the straphangers and passers-by and other occasional viewers/participants, so I may as well start the bidding with two serious candidates:

1. Dassault Mercure
2. VFW-614

jlemon

Ah, I missed the fact that the United B720 was re-registered by Alaska Air as N304AS....and the third former PNA 720 does not appear on my list. Appreciate the additional info and confirmation, as always! ^

Now, about that turkey of an airliner......

Although I enjoyed my flights in business class on board MD-11 aircraft operated by Delta, it appears this wide body was not well loved by some airlines to include American. A friend of mine is a senior maintenance manager with AA at DFW and he tells horror stories about the airplane....

Seat 2A

Happy Thanksgiving, gang! We're having a community thanksgiving later today with three of my neighbors and myself all contributing to the effort. There will be turkey - and snow crab! I hope you all have a great day wherever you are.

As to WHBM's question -

Which commercial airliner was the worst turkey ever?

While I suspect the answer may lie in some European design from the forties, amongst more modern possibilities might be the Tupolev TU-144, the Russian SST. Aside from the well publicized (and witnessed) crash at the Paris Air Show, the plane was plagued by a variety of systems failures both inflight and on the ground. It is rumored that designers Aerospatiale and BAC - in anticipation of Soviet espionage - arranged for the Sovs to get ahold of a phony blueprint that incorporated deliberate design flaws. The plane only flew a handful of times before being relegated to freight service.

Indelaware

I can't think of any better candidate for this label than Luftschiffbau Zeppelin's Hidenburg-class airship. Only two units manufactured; one ended in disaster, the other scrapped after only 30 flights - most of which were not commercial flights - so its metal could be used in (Nazi) military aircraft.

WHBM

The Mercure only sold ten aircraft to state-owned Air Inter (note that Dassault itself was not state-owned; the aircraft was a corporate venture), but at least they then served a reasonable life. I'm tempted to go for the VFW-614 myself, because they built no less than 19 aircraft in 1971-78, not one of which was ever sold. They were able to give a few on free loan to airlines (Cimber Air of Denmark had several), but once it was suggested they start making payments they were all handed back. A few were also "given" to the German Air Force, but hardly used. Product support for them, always lack-lustre, pretty much disappeared once the production run finished. Some of the later ones were tested but then scrapped without ever being used in service.

The Handley Page Hermes probably drops into this category because the prototype crashed two minutes into its maiden flight, killing the senior Handley Page test crew, having been seen by ground observers to have been violently out of control from the moment it lifted off. Although a fleet was eventually supplied to BOAC, they got rid of them after a few years; it cruised with an extraordinary tail-low attitude, so much so that passing aircraft were known to radio whether they were in difficulties.

Certainly in modern times this is the contender, with an aerodynamic tail design that can only be termed incompetent. There's a story that after their introduction the Chief Pilot of a major operator told their Board of Directors in a closed session that it's performance on landing was an accident waiting to happen, after which a very considerable sum was written off when they were quietly sold to airfreight companies, all presented as an efficiency issue compared to the newer 777 - true in part but not enough to justify the financial write-down.

jlemon

Interesting to note that a Tupolev Tu-144D was resurrected for high speed flight research in the late 1990's. And the lead agency in this project was NASA which was joined by several contractors to include Boeing, McDonnell Douglas and Rockwell.

This particular Tu-144 was equipped with Kuznetsov NK-321 engines which are used to power the Tupolev Tu-160 "Blackjack" (NATO designation) supersonic bomber (more on the Tu-160 in a moment). The aircraft was also designated as a Tu-144LL. I believe that "LL" refers to the fact the aircraft was a flying laboratory for the high speed flight research program. The U.S. and Russian flags were displayed on the tail of the aircraft and the NASA emblem along with the names of the three prominent contractors engaged in the project at the time, being Boeing, McDonnell Douglas and Rockwell, appeared on the aircraft near the forward boarding door.

Getting back to the Tu-160 "Blackjack", this supersonic bomber remains operational with the Russian Air Force. About a year ago, two Tu-160s violated Colombian air space while flying from Venezuela to Nicaragua. The Tu-160 flight crews apparently did not request permission to overfly Colombia. The Colombians were not amused and sent several of their "Kfir" multirole interceptors (which is a supersonic fighter bomber based on the Dassault Mirage 5 and manufactured by Israel Aircraft Industries, known as IAI) up to escort the Tu-160s out of their air space. I mention this because the Russians recently announced they intend to initiate military air patrols over the "neutral" areas of the Gulf of Mexico not too far from where my current employer conducts helicopter operations in support of deep water oil and gas drilling and production activities. Stay tuned.....

jlemon

The airplane certainly has had its problems. Witness the fate of Swissair 111 off the coast of Nova Scotia, Canada. FedEx has also lost two MD-11s, both in landing accidents where the aircraft came to rest inverted and on fire.

BTW, KLM Royal Dutch recently retired the MD-11 from their fleet. I believe KLM was the last operator of the MD-11 in scheduled passenger operations. Some years ago, I remember watching a KLM operated MD-11 on departure from the old "challenging" airport in Quito, Ecuador. The aircraft used the entire runway, lifting off right at the end. Quito has a new airport these days......

Seat 2A

9. In 1967, this airline was operating a daily nonstop flight from Las Vegas to Oakland which departed LAS at 7:00am and arrived at OAK at 8:11am. Identify the air carrier and the equipment.

Up up and away with TWA on a Convair 880...

23. Alaska Airlines was planning to operate two different jet aircraft types that were never delivered to or flown by the carrier. In both cases, these aircraft would have been newly manufactured airplanes. Identify them.

Alaska ordered one or two 747-190s that were never taken up. Given its predilection for gay 90s themed interiors at that time, I would love to have seen the plans for the interior.

Additionally, I think Alaska may have been an early customer for the MD-95 which of course went on to become the Boeing 717. In any event, Alaska standardized its fleet around the 737.

jlemon

It's a crisp, cold, clear and beautiful morning here in south Louisiana. We had patchy frost on the rooftop and lawn, which is referred to locally as "Cajun snow". Hope everyone had a safe and enjoyable Thanksgiving here in the U.S.

Referencing post # 6462, there are still several quiz items that remain unanswered from my most recent set. And here are some new ones. As always, please limit your answers to two or three at a time so that all may take part:

26. This airline was flying regional jets in 2001 as an independent operator. Four destinations were served: Albuquerque (ABQ), Nashville (BNA), Oklahoma City (OKC) and Tulsa (TUL). Identify the air carrier and the aircraft type. ANSWERED

27. Allegiant Air was only serving four destinations in the summer of 1999. Name all four. ANSWERED

28. In 1986, this U.S. airline offered a very interesting promotion. If one was a member of this airline's frequent flyer program and flew a minimum of 125,000 miles within a two year period, this air carrier via its vehicle leasing partner would provide you with your choice of one of the following cars on a complimentary lease basis for one year: Alfa Romeo Milano or Spider, BMW 325e, Peugeot 505 Turbo or Volkswagen Vanagon. And here's a hint: this airline was only serving five destinations with one aircraft type at this time. Name the air carrier. And for bonus points, name all five destinations and the equipment. ANSWERED

29. In 1985, this airline was flying scheduled intrastate operations in Texas with service to five different destinations, one of which was an "alternative" airport. The aircraft used for this service was configured with over 50 passenger seats. Identify the air carrier, all five airports and the equipment. ANSWERED

30. During the 1970's, this airline had a nickname for one of its jet aircraft: "Little Precious". Name the airline and the equipment. ANSWERED

Fill in the blanks with regard to the following airline advertisements:

31. "Know which airline is opening up 22 cities to jet-powered service for the first time? Sure,___(airline)___ ! Now Number 1 in the sky wherever we fly. _________ AIRLINES" ANSWERED

32: "Discover the new ___(airline)___. It's the best of all possible ways to get where you're going. With steak and eggs for breakfast on selected flights. Complimentary ________ wine with most lunch and dinner menus. And the kind of comfort you get with first class legroom at coach prices - wherever you sit. MEALS THAT ARE MAKING US FAMOUS." ANSWERED

33. "The ____(airline)____Flub-Stub Creed. Here's what we promise you: A smile and a genuinely friendly greeting from every _______ Airlines employee you meet. If your ticket is supposed to be waiting at Will Call, it will be ready and waiting. A stewardess to greet you with a smile at the door of your plane when you arrive and when you leave, and to treat you throughout the flight as you would a guest in your own home. A special dietary meal if you order three hours in advance of your flight. The best cup of coffee in the sky. En route announcements from your pilot or co-pilot. A clean plane with clean ash trays and sparkling washrooms on all originating flights. A sincere "Thank You" when you call or visit a ________ Airlines Ticket Counter or Office. Any time we don't live up to one of these promises, or give you an immediate explanation why we can't, you get a Flub-Stub worth a buck. Ask for it right then and there. That's the ___(airline)___Way." ANSWERED

34. "Hello __(aircraft)___! And fond farewell to our ___(aircraft)____, no longer part of ___ (airline)___fleet. To meet the needs of today's sophisticated air travelers, effective June 1 _______ introduces improved jet service with the addition of comfortable wide-cabin _________ . More jet flights throughout our expanding network that ever before. ___(airline)___ is going places. And more and more travelers are going with ________, the big airline with the hometown touch." ANSWERED

35. "Twice as fast on the scenic west coast route: ___(airline)___ ____(aircraft)____ JETS TO SOUTH AMERICA. World's friendliest airline." ANSWERED

36. "AFRICA: less than 24 jet hours from New York!. __(airline)____: World Leader in Jet Travel." ANSWERED

The next four quiz items have a time line of early 1976:

37. You are in San Francisco and need to travel to Salt Lake City. There are a number of nonstop flights you could choose from. However, there is only one flight from SFO to SLC which makes one intermediate stop en route and since you enjoy landings and takeoffs, you book a seat. However, first class is not available as the jet aircraft has an all coach configuration. Identify the airline, the equipment and the intermediate stop. ANSWERED

38. Now you are in Toronto and must attend a meeting in Minneapolis. One airline has direct service from YYZ to MSP with three flights a day, all of which make two intermediate stops en route and all of which are flown with the same aircraft type. In addition, the intermediate stops are the same on every flight. Name the airline, the aircraft type and both stops. ANSWERED

39. It's a beautiful Wednesday night in New York City and you are having a wonderful dinner with friends. Then you are summoned to take an "important" phone call. Ah, you think, could it be.....and it is: your old sailing buddy from Santa Barbara calling from Honolulu! "Come on over as soon as you can," he says, "I need your help sailing my latest acquisition, a 62 foot catamaran, from here to Bora Bora in the south Pacific!" Well, how can you resist this offer? You quickly discover there are two flights operated by two different airlines departing for HNL from JFK the next morning. And if you need to wait until Saturday to travel, there is a third flight operated by a third air carrier. None of these flights are nonstop. Two of the flights make one stop and the third flight makes two stops en route, all on a direct basis with no change of plane. Identify all three airlines, the respective intermediate stops and the aircraft type flown on the route by each air carrier. ANSWERED

40. You've now arrived in Honolulu only to learn there has been a setback concerning the sailboat departure to French Polynesia. One of the cat's diesel engines needs some work and this will take several days. You then receive an urgent message: can you attend a business meeting in Anchorage as soon as possible? You quickly ascertain there is one airline operating nonstop service between HNL and ANC with this flight operating four days a week. If you depart to ANC the next morning, you will be able to return to HNL within two days and thus be on board the cat for your sail trip to Bora Bora. However, there is no first class on this flight as the aircraft in question has an all coach configuration. Name the airline you'll be flying on and identify the equipment. ANSWERED

WHBM

North Central DC-9 ? Toronto-Detroit-Milwaukee-Minneapolis ?

jlemon

9. Correct! And you would have enjoyed a full hot breakfast on TW 118 as well.

23. I believe only one B747-100 was involved. The colorful then President & CEO of Alaska Air, Charles "Charlie" F. Willis Jr., apparently astonished his management colleagues with his statement that the airline would acquire and operate a 747. An artist's rendition in the AS employee newsletter, the "Talking Totem", depicted the upper deck of the 747 fitted out as a Klondike saloon complete with two large chandeliers. However, it appears cooler heads then prevailed as the financial situation at AS was precarious at the time and the aircraft would have been much too large for year round operations between Seattle and Alaska. The 747 was never delivered to Alaska Airlines.

The second aircraft was not the MD-95; however, you are very close!

jlemon

38. Correct, sir! NC operated the DC-9-30 on these flights in an all economy "standard" class (S) seating configuration.