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First/Business Class: Should there be age restrictions?

First/Business Class: Should there be age restrictions?

Old May 7, 2015, 11:31 am
  #226  
 
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Originally Posted by Big4Flyer
I don't think the problem is the kids, I've found that 90% of the time its the parents.
Change the percentage to 95% + when talking about kids under 5 and I'm with you.

I recently flew first class to Costa Rica with my 2 yo. I took a whole backpack of snacks and toys to make time go faster. She was very good except for the last 20 minutes when she announced "all done" and wanted to get up. Heck, I felt all done too and she quoted down quickly. I didn't sleep a wink on the flight because I was working to ensure my daughter was happy and well behaved. Too many parents view flight time as time to stop parenting. This doesn't change by whatever cabin they are in.

I will continue to book first when I can and will continue to be an active and involved parent.

And to the OP asking about why take kids on vacations they won't remember: while my daughter likely won't remember this trip, it was a chance for her Costa Rican family (I was an exchange student with them 25 years ago) to meet her. I doubt my host parents are going to live much longer and it gave them immense happiness to meet their American grand baby.
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Old May 21, 2015, 7:44 am
  #227  
DSI
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Originally Posted by You want to go where? View Post
Personally, I think the one thing that airlines can do is both empower and require their flight attendants to be stricter with those that disrupt the cabin whether they be adults or children. If parents are being too permissive with their children, then the FAs have to spring into action. Tell the parents that they will be offloaded or banned from the airline if they don't keep their children under control. Threaten the same banishment to overly intoxicated/self-important passengers.

Would you be willing to say the same thing but change the world "children" to "mentally handicapped"?

Children seem to be the only acceptable target for bigotry these days on FT. Lots of children aren't treated as equals and enslaved all around the world.
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Old May 21, 2015, 8:09 am
  #228  
 
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Popcorn time...
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Old May 21, 2015, 8:42 am
  #229  
 
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Originally Posted by declinespecificinformation
Would you be willing to say the same thing but change the world "children" to "mentally handicapped"?

Lots of children aren't treated as equals and enslaved all around the world.
Definitely relevant comments to the discussion.
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Old May 21, 2015, 9:08 am
  #230  
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Originally Posted by Annalisa12
Possibly she is concerned with the environment of adding a few extra greenhouse gasses by flying a private jet and wants to get on a commercial plane?

Maybe she might be trying to look like a normal parent flying commercial.
I have to admit, I laughed at both of those.
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Old May 21, 2015, 9:11 am
  #231  
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Originally Posted by declinespecificinformation
If parents are being too permissive with their children, then the FAs have to spring into action. Tell the parents that they will be offloaded or banned from the airline if they don't keep their children under control. Threaten the same banishment to overly intoxicated/self-important passengers.
One of the first things FAs learn in training is that threats and confrontation do not make things better in a confined space. They make things worse. There are wiser ways of deescalating situations involving drunks, lechers, mile-high-clubbers, DYKWIAs, nervous flyers... and kids, who are typically the least trouble of that set.

Attacking and threatening people who offend you is easier on an Internet keyboard than nose to nose.
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Old May 21, 2015, 9:16 am
  #232  
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Originally Posted by You want to go where?
Personally, I think the one thing that airlines can do is both empower and require their flight attendants to be stricter with those that disrupt the cabin whether they be adults or children.
For what it's worth, they already are empowered to do this, and every few weeks we see a news story where they use this empowerment for various reasons.

We've had some threads here that question whether FAs have abused this power as well, playing the "security" card for minor issues.

That said, if an FA feels like a passenger is genuinely disruptive to the cabin, causing some sort of safety or security issue, they can and will take action...sometimes offloading the offenders themselves and sometimes having the police do it.
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Old May 21, 2015, 11:53 am
  #233  
 
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Originally Posted by declinespecificinformation

Would you be willing to say the same thing but change the world "children" to "mentally handicapped"?

Children seem to be the only acceptable target for bigotry these days on FT. Lots of children aren't treated as equals and enslaved all around the world.
I am not bigoted against children, I am bigoted against over neglectful parents. One of the responsibilities of parents is to teach their children how to function in society. I see well-behaved children all the time on planes and I am happy to share my environment with them. And to be clear, I am not asking them to stop being kids. But when I am on a plane and kids run up and down the aisles in-flight, sit on the floor and play with their toys in the aisle, and harass other passengers while both the parents and the FA's do nothing I am going to say that something needs to be done. It isn't just a comfort issue, it's a safety issue both for the children and the other passengers.

Children are not adults and cannot and should not be treated as such. Is it slavery to tell a child he is not allowed to drink alcohol or to vote in elections? It is simply lazy thinking to not distinguish the difference between placing reasonable restrictions on children and their enslavement (and yes, I do agree that child enslavement is a problem).

I also agree with others that I see more problem adults than children which is why my suggestion incorporated them as well.

As far as the 'mentally handicapped' are concerned, yes, the same prevails. You are of course unaware that my brother was mentally handicapped and I flew with him many, many times. Don't mistake my firm belief that there need to be minimum standards for flying on an airplane which flight attendants need to enforce with an intolerance of diversity. My concerns are about the extremes of behavior not minor things.

Originally Posted by pinniped
For what it's worth, they already are empowered to do this, and every few weeks we see a news story where they use this empowerment for various reasons.

We've had some threads here that question whether FAs have abused this power as well, playing the "security" card for minor issues.

That said, if an FA feels like a passenger is genuinely disruptive to the cabin, causing some sort of safety or security issue, they can and will take action...sometimes offloading the offenders themselves and sometimes having the police do it.
I did include the word 'require' for a reason. I know that they are technically empowered to do this, but I don't know how much leeway the airlines actually give them. I also doubt they are ever monitored as to the quality and safety of the cabin environment beyond fulfilling the clearly defined obligations that we all know. See above for my example of children creating a safety hazard (as well as an infernal nuisance) and the failure of the parents or the FA to do anything about it.
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Old May 21, 2015, 12:07 pm
  #234  
 
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Originally Posted by BearX220
One of the first things FAs learn in training is that threats and confrontation do not make things better in a confined space. They make things worse. There are wiser ways of deescalating situations involving drunks, lechers, mile-high-clubbers, DYKWIAs, nervous flyers... and kids, who are typically the least trouble of that set.

Attacking and threatening people who offend you is easier on an Internet keyboard than nose to nose.
I was cutting to the chase, not trying to write a manual on how to deal with disruptive passengers. I fully agree that you don't start with the 'nuclear' option. To address your comment I will rephrase: a) FAs need to spring into action to deal with continued or escalating disruption in the cabin and should nothing else work threaten to (or if necessary, actually) offload and ban them from future flights.
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Old May 21, 2015, 3:06 pm
  #235  
 
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Originally Posted by declinespecificinformation
Originally Posted by You want to go where? View Post


Children seem to be the only acceptable target for bigotry these days on FT. Lots of children aren't treated as equals and enslaved all around the world.
That is, perhaps because they are not equals. Maturation is happening and isn't completed. Of course the parental control is 99% of the problem but children are not adults, are not equal in either reasoning or understanding and do need to be taught as they grow. And yes, I do have a degree in child psychology.
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Old May 22, 2015, 12:51 am
  #236  
 
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Originally Posted by declinespecificinformation
Children seem to be the only acceptable target for bigotry these days on FT. Lots of children aren't treated as equals and enslaved all around the world.
And why on earth should they be treated as equals? Do they contribute equally to society? Do they have the same level of maturity?
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Old May 22, 2015, 7:25 am
  #237  
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First/Business Class: Should there be age restrictions?

Yes.

How about 15-75 years?

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Old May 22, 2015, 7:58 am
  #238  
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Originally Posted by You want to go where?
I did include the word 'require' for a reason. I know that they are technically empowered to do this, but I don't know how much leeway the airlines actually give them.
I think they're pretty empowered and given a lot of leeway. Lots of threads here about someone having a mild disagreement with an FA about pretty much anything and it turning into a "security" situation.

Clearly there's a happy medium somewhere, and clearly there are FA's on both ends of the spectrum...ones that are hesitant to use their power even for a serious situation and others who will summon the police in the name of "security" if you look at them funny.
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Old May 31, 2015, 6:09 pm
  #239  
 
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I will jump in here...

My daughter has been flying F or Business international since she was two. I have had FA thank my husband and me for having such a polite child. Compared to the drunk adults, there is no question that she is better behaved.

I think that without question, when traveling with a minor, be it in First or Coach, is all a matter of expectations. We expect good behavior, and only exceptional behavior is rewarded (e.g. no flare ups during long delays or missed connections). That said, I have no patience for people who complain about kids but say nothing about the drunk idiot who is watching soft-porn on his laptop in full view my fourteen-year-old daughter.

Honestly, can't we behave in F (or on a plane for that matter) as we would in a nice restaurant? *sigh*
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Old May 31, 2015, 8:03 pm
  #240  
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Some people--adults and kids--don't behave that well in nice restaurants.
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