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I put the post in this Forum since this is where the question of Tipping is usually debated. I also didnt put it onto another thread least it get buried and not seen
So...the patrons gave their money, which did not include enough to cover the mandatory 'gratuity' to the bartender, the owner says the managers offered to comp the meal but still called the cops for the unpaid tip?
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The article said it was 'mandatory' tip, and I noticed there were 8 people in the party--at many restaurants, "tip" for large parties (such as more than 8 people) are required. So, I'm guessing that's the reason why they were arrested (personally, I don't think restaurants should require tip at all, at any size of the dining party, but that's a separate thing).
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I dont see the point of a cover charge for large parties... on several FT Dinners for example we had to pay a 50-100$ charge for a seperate room.
I understand that there is cleaning required but THAT should really be included when you have 30 people giving you their business with about 30$ each. Not to talk about the tip's that come in.
Regarding these, as mentioned in the other thread I think 12-15% are reasonable. If the "mandatory 8+ party tip" is around 15% just swallow it. Otherwise negotiate a comp dinner or free round in advance to absorb some of it.
I figure that the price of the restaurant is just 15% more than what's written on the menu. Tipping is so expected that if you don't want to pay the tip, then don't go. I hate tipping myself and the feeling of uneasiness associated with leaving a low tip, but if I'm going to leave a low tip, I probably don't care about how they're going to perceive me. I wish tipping would go away and they just raise their prices, but for now, I view tipping as a way to get cheaper meals when I give less than 15%.
I live in California, so if you add in sales tax of about 10%, I'm already 25% over the sticker price. You have to actively try not to get reeled in by "low" prices. Tack on 25% to find the real price and avoid if it's too much.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyMeToTheLooneyBin
I figure that the price of the restaurant is just 15% more than what's written on the menu. Tipping is so expected that if you don't want to pay the tip, then don't go. I hate tipping myself and the feeling of uneasiness associated with leaving a low tip, but if I'm going to leave a low tip, I probably don't care about how they're going to perceive me. I wish tipping would go away and they just raise their prices, but for now, I view tipping as a way to get cheaper meals when I give less than 15%.
Did you read the article? There is nothing in there that indicated that the patrons went there with the intent to not tip. They ended up withholding the tip because the service was abysmal. Even though I typically tip 15-20%, I will tip less, including as low as zero, if the service is lacking.
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"The greatest calamity which could befall us would be submission to a government of unlimited powers." -- T. Jefferson
Did you read the article? There is nothing in there that indicated that the patrons went there with the intent to not tip. They ended up withholding the tip because the service was abysmal. Even though I typically tip 15-20%, I will tip less, including as low as zero, if the service is lacking.
Bingo and thats the way it should be, no service no tip! it shouldnt be automatic but something that is earned. And in this case it seems no one earned anything with the non-service they received
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Coming from Scandinavia tipping does not come naturally to me. A few years ago a friend and I had breakfast at place on MIA beach. When the bill came they had added a tip of 20% I think. As we had some complaints about the service we reduced it to 15% and left. However, the waitress came running after us on the street and yelled at us making us both feel very bad. Since then I have never dared go anywhere near a low tip. I understand the waitress is on a low wage but still adding 20% (don't remember if it might even have been higher) just because it is in a touristy place is not acceptable. It is funny when tip isn't voluntary or related to actual service.
When the bill came they had added a tip of 20% I think.
Had a similar experience at a hotel restauraunt in NH. Upgrade from standard breakfast (which was included in the room rate) to buffet was $5. When a check came it was $13 ($5 upgrade and $8 in tip;$8 handwritten by the waitress). When I dared to question the amount, waitress yelled (and I am not kidding you, she literally started yelling at me the moment I asked her to enlighten me on the amount of the tip) it was standard 25% of the full price of buffet breakfast and she went into the hassle of putting it on the check herself because we (bloody foreigners) had no concept of tipping whatsoever.
Needless to say I left this wonderful hotel 2 hours later and will never stay with the chain they belong to again.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luitje
Had a similar experience at a hotel restauraunt in NH. Upgrade from standard breakfast (which was included in the room rate) to buffet was $5. When a check came it was $13 ($5 upgrade and $8 in tip;$8 handwritten by the waitress). When I dared to question the amount, waitress yelled (and I am not kidding you, she literally started yelling at me the moment I asked her to enlighten me on the amount of the tip) it was standard 25% of the full price of buffet breakfast and she went into the hassle of putting it on the check herself because we (bloody foreigners) had no concept of tipping whatsoever.
Needless to say I left this wonderful hotel 2 hours later and will never stay with the chain they belong to again.
I'm an American, and after traveling places constantly that have no real tipping culture, I can tell you that I don't like it in the US, either.
I simply wouldn't put up with nonsense like this. Why leave a hotel chain over one employee? Talk to the restaurant manager or hotel manager. I've never seen a breakfast in the US that was worth an $8 tip. I stay a Hiltons often, and they often have a $3 or $5 upgrade to a full breakfast. Depending on the full amount of the breakfast, I'll leave $1-$2 tip.
I absolutely hate places that have mandatory tips for normal sized parties. I'll either not pay it, or have a discussion with the manager.
I recently had a big group lunch (25-30 people). Their menu mentioned an automatic tip, but when I got the final bill, it wasn't on there. I questioned it to make sure it wasn't hidden in there. Nope. They got more of a tip this way, and I would gladly return to the location.
this thread tells me why mandatory tipping is necessary for large groups
I guess nobody else in this thread ever worked as a server. I have. You *must* require a mandatory tip from a large party, because the majority of large parties in inexpensive restaurants are families and church groups who are not willing to pay a fair tip. A party of 8 demands most of your attention, yet, without mandatory tipping, they will not tip more than a couple of dollars. With 8 people, there is always someone in the group who has a "story" about why the money should go into his pocket instead of the pocket of the person who actually did the work of waiting on the table. The Good Lord forgive me, but the church groups were the absolute worse for this. If there was one decent person in the group, the cheapskate would stay behind to put part or even all of the tip in his pocket. No server would be willing to take on the larger tables if there wasn't mandatory tipping. There are just too many bad guys out there, and they travel in packs. And it seems to be a rule of life that those who demand the most effort want to pay the least...or even want something for nothing.
Frankly, even though it was the 1970s since I last waited tables, there's a part of me that is absolutely delighted that the cheapskates were carted off to jail. If they had a problem with waiting a long time for the food, hey, guess what, the server doesn't cook the food. Talk to management. In fact, the manager said he offered a meal comp, which is fair, but they still had to pay the tip. Apparently they would rather pay for the meal and be sure that the worker was stiffed. That's just ugliness. Since their mother didn't teach them kindness or manners, maybe their cell mates at the local jail will.
If you see that a restaurant is under-staffed and the server can't get around to you fast enough, again, the server is not in control of staffing. Complain to the manager. Don't steal from the server. When something goes wrong at your job, you still expect to be paid. When your boss screws up and makes you look bad, do you skip getting paid that day? Nope. Don't think so.
And, yes, you pay the tip based on the original cost of the meal -- before any coupons, discount, freebies, etcetera. You don't pre-pay for the buffet or have it somehow included in the price of your room, later scribble in $5 for an "upgrade" and then tip only based on the pretense that it was a $5 buffet! Ugh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UA_Eagle
The article said it was 'mandatory' tip, and I noticed there were 8 people in the party--at many restaurants, "tip" for large parties (such as more than 8 people) are required. So, I'm guessing that's the reason why they were arrested (personally, I don't think restaurants should require tip at all, at any size of the dining party, but that's a separate thing).
Last edited by peachfront; Nov 20, 09 at 9:07 am..
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