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People in the USA who obsess over 15% vs. 17%, or the few pennies difference between basing the tip on pre-tax vs. post-tax, or whether an extra dollar is warranted or not, should stick to fast food or to eating at home.
25% for a Buffet, where you get your own food???
I would be VERY upset as well. She was not trying to make you "familiar with the tipping culture", she was flat out trying to defraud and take advantage of you.
Yeah and that's before you consider that the breakfast isn't really a $32 breakfast, that's just the number they put on it for the sake of it.
This happens in the UK too. My bottom line is that if the charge is made clear upfront - and not described as discretionary - then you pay it. That was the contract. If it is described as discretionary but flagged up front then you would only refuse to pay it if the service was demonstrably unacceptable.
In the UK you most definitely can remove the charge, if, as in this case, you are not happy with the service. Cultural differences between the UK and US mean the police would most certainly tell the restaurant where to go.
The amazing part of this all to me is horrible backlash that this sort of thing has with our all digital world. A few decades ago someone could give you a hard time and get away with it... Now it takes a few minutes to write a post a dozen websites and influence far more in sales than was lost in the tip.
As far as group tips, the idea of a "required" tip drives me nuts and I think we all have seen the absurd of it. Anything required isn't a tip, it's a fee. More importantly, when there's a set tip that's what I will leave. When there's not and it's a good meal the tip is almost always higher in the groups I go out with -- even if one person stiffs others make it up.
People in the USA who obsess over 15% vs. 17%, or the few pennies difference between basing the tip on pre-tax vs. post-tax, or whether an extra dollar is warranted or not, should stick to fast food or to eating at home.
You do what you want, I'll do what I want. I figure out what percentage I want to give and give exactly that, pre-tax. Really great service can yield up to 25%, really crappy service could mean 0% to 5%. Always at least a buck (even on a $4.00 breakfast).
If the food is badly prepared, I don't hold the waitperson accountable unless he/she is apathetic when I complain. In that case, the waiter has pretty much bought the problem.
In the day of credit cards, there's no need to round up or down other than to the nearest penny.
You may think it's cheap, but I watch my money and tipped professionals need to earn their tips.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN
You do what you want, I'll do what I want. I figure out what percentage I want to give and give exactly that, pre-tax. Really great service can yield up to 25%, really crappy service could mean 0% to 5%. Always at least a buck (even on a $4.00 breakfast).
If the food is badly prepared, I don't hold the waitperson accountable unless he/she is apathetic when I complain. In that case, the waiter has pretty much bought the problem.
In the day of credit cards, there's no need to round up or down other than to the nearest penny.
You may think it's cheap, but I watch my money and tipped professionals need to earn their tips.
My point is that you overrate the typical waiter's math skills if you think he or she can tell at a glance if you left 15% vs. 17%. 0 vs. 20 is more obvious.
(BTW, if I ever left less than 15% in a restaurant in the USA in my life, it was a mistake. And I was going to lunch counters in the 3rd grade on my own and leaving 15% tips.)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr H
I think PT22064 demonstrates quite well that tipping is based primarily on a wish to demonstrate largesse and to compete with other patrons for the "extra special" service.
How on Earth do you read that into his post!?
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Had a similar experience at a hotel restauraunt in NH. Upgrade from standard breakfast (which was included in the room rate) to buffet was $5. When a check came it was $13 ($5 upgrade and $8 in tip;$8 handwritten by the waitress). When I dared to question the amount, waitress yelled (and I am not kidding you, she literally started yelling at me the moment I asked her to enlighten me on the amount of the tip) it was standard 25% of the full price of buffet breakfast and she went into the hassle of putting it on the check herself because we (bloody foreigners) had no concept of tipping whatsoever.
Needless to say I left this wonderful hotel 2 hours later and will never stay with the chain they belong to again.
You had definately got taken advantage by the waitress, as she wrote down on the check for the $8 tip. I had stayed from a 6* Ritz to a 3* Holiday Inn, never had seen standard 25% mandatory tip at all no matter order from the menus or from the buffet. I would definately complain to the restaurant manager, if not write down the waitress name and write a letter to the hotel manager. The dishonest waitress deserved to be fired.
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I've had a few servers chase me down and asked me to leave at tip, or told me I had to. I didn't just quietly tell them that I was required to leave a gratuity (from French gratuité, from Old French gratuite, from Medieval Latin grtuts, probably from Latin grtutus, voluntary; see gratuitous which means VOLUNTARY.) I've sternly blast the waiter and the manager in front of other patrons giving them the etymology of gratuity and the rudeness of chasing someone down telling them they have to tip you. I know that some may see causing a scene gauche, but other patrons will know how this establishment treats customers. It's insulting however, to the patron, to be accosted to leave a tip.
Now, what I won't do is penalize the waiter if the kitchen/bar has messed up my order, as it is not their fault. Sometimes people make mistakes, and if it's something minor like the wrong salad dressing or beverage, then I just ask for a replacement. If it is a major issue with the food, I call the manager and explain it to them.
I will not tip at buffets, self-service, or counter service (those tip jars get on my nerves). I generally don't tip unless I get exceptionally service or if I am with a large party, because large parties are more work for the server, not to mention they may not be able to take on other tables because you require their full attention and a tip of 18% or better is reasonable for good service for a large group.
I really get annoyed with those places that automatically add a gratuity to the bill for a party less than 6 people. It is usually more than 15% and they have the nerve to say "We've automatically added the gratuity to your total for your convenience." Although some also say you can raise/lower the amount at your discretion.
(Warning: There's a lot of nasty and offensive language in the video, that definitely makes this clip NSFW. Watch at your own risk and discretion.) However, it is an interesting debate from both sides, and makes a great point.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chitownflyer
I thought standard gratuity ofr the UK is 10 percent as the wait staff receive a better salary than they do in the US.
no, 10% is a polite and generous amount to leave if the service was good.
large party service charges are usually applied to parties of over 10,12 ish, most tips would be a couple of quid or "keep the change" Bar staff are not usually tipped but the customer might offer to buy the bar staff a drink for especially good service which might include the server charging for a drink and keeping the cash as a tip
all of the places I worked when I was younger, collected all the tips and shared them between kitchen and serving staff equally
no, 10% is a polite and generous amount to leave if the service was good.
I would say that American traditions both good and bad creep into British ways, so if you go places around Picadilly Circus they would sometimes frown upon tips smaller than 20%. I now see these infamous jars in some pubs too. Funny enough in my local pub they started with "every penny from this jar goes into local charity". Now this sign is gone.
I must admit they still behave courtly there. I've seen on several occasions bartender rounding the amount to a quid and then taking missing pennies from the jar saving his customer a hassle of looking for the change.
I would say that American traditions both good and bad creep into British ways, so if you go places around Picadilly Circus they would sometimes frown upon tips smaller than 20%. I now see these infamous jars in some pubs too. Funny enough in my local pub they started with "every penny from this jar goes into local charity". Now this sign is gone.
I must admit they still behave courtly there. I've seen on several occasions bartender rounding the amount to the quid and then taking missing pennies from the jar saving his customer a hassle of looking for the change.
Yes, most times the Europeans are more civilized than we are.
When tipping I will leave from 15% on up depending upon the service and there are the rare instances where nothing or over 20% was left. I do let the manager know about the quality of service, whether it be good or poor.
For a mom & pop restaurant there is little recourse after bringing issues to the manager/owner and they will not correct the problems.except to take your business elsewhere. For chain restaurants I have written the corporate office voicing my displeasure and often have seen visible improvements on subsequent visits.
My point is that you overrate the typical waiter's math skills if you think he or she can tell at a glance if you left 15% vs. 17%. 0 vs. 20 is more obvious.
(BTW, if I ever left less than 15% in a restaurant in the USA in my life, it was a mistake. And I was going to lunch counters in the 3rd grade on my own and leaving 15% tips.)
Woah! You were a precocious 3rd grader. When I was in the third grade, I was still raising my hand to get that $1 hot dog which the teacher then charged to my parents.
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