Jun 4, 2014, 6:07 pm
Last edit by: TWA884
ITA Matrix Search: http://matrix.itasoftware.com
You can sometimes see flights, fares and detailed fare rules that may not be reflected on an airline's website. Please read the thread for some tips and tricks, screen shots, etc.
A related thread, ITA-Matrix-PowerTools - Userscript for Orbitz/DL/UA/AA/BA/CZ/IB/LA/LH/LX/TK, discusses a user script which is maintained by fellow flyertalk members to enhance the already powerful Matrix of ITA Software by providing new features and booking links.
Additional details and tips on the use of ITA's advanced routing code feature can be found in the following long-standing Mileage Run Discussion threads:
You can sometimes see flights, fares and detailed fare rules that may not be reflected on an airline's website. Please read the thread for some tips and tricks, screen shots, etc.
A related thread, ITA-Matrix-PowerTools - Userscript for Orbitz/DL/UA/AA/BA/CZ/IB/LA/LH/LX/TK, discusses a user script which is maintained by fellow flyertalk members to enhance the already powerful Matrix of ITA Software by providing new features and booking links.
Additional details and tips on the use of ITA's advanced routing code feature can be found in the following long-standing Mileage Run Discussion threads:
ITA Software Matrix Airfare Search Consolidated Information and Help Thread
Sep 1, 2015, 8:09 am
#1126
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
I disagree that there is "an exponential growth of the number of possible results".
In fact, considering that you can reach any destination on the planet by about three hops, the number of results would be: H1*H2*D, with H1 the number of airports connected to your departure point (hubs), H2 the number of airports connected to H1, and D the arrival point connected to H2.
In fact, considering that you can reach any destination on the planet by about three hops, the number of results would be: H1*H2*D, with H1 the number of airports connected to your departure point (hubs), H2 the number of airports connected to H1, and D the arrival point connected to H2.
In any case, just finding a route is the easy part of the problem. The hard part is finding and partitioning fares into allowed priceable units over the sectors. See https://static.googleusercontent.com...arl_Sep-03.pdf for why this problem is not actually decidable in a strict computational sense. (No algorithm exists that is guaranteed to find the lowest price on every possible search, even with unlimited resources and time.). Of course in practise most routes are quite simple, but even on LON-NYC there are hundreds of fares loaded from dozens of carriers which must be each evaluated.
ITA Matrix does not have the full power of QPX switched on.
Last edited by Calchas; Sep 1, 2015 at 8:15 am
Sep 1, 2015, 9:18 am
#1128
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS
Posts: 15,027
In any case, just finding a route is the easy part of the problem. The hard part is finding and partitioning fares into allowed priceable units over the sectors. See https://static.googleusercontent.com...arl_Sep-03.pdf for why this problem is not actually decidable in a strict computational sense. (No algorithm exists that is guaranteed to find the lowest price on every possible search, even with unlimited resources and time.). Of course in practise most routes are quite simple, but even on LON-NYC there are hundreds of fares loaded from dozens of carriers which must be each evaluated.
If a system cannot find any possible combination of routes and fares, what point is it to load all of these fares?
Sep 1, 2015, 9:53 am
#1129
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
The difficulty arises if, with those uncountable millions of possible combinations, you want to assure yourself of always getting the lowest possible fare. That's the task that is rapidly unmanageable because of exponential growth. But trying to manage it was an interesting, and ultimately lucrative, project for those who founded ITA.
Sep 2, 2015, 4:09 am
#1130
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere between if and else
Posts: 142
Sep 2, 2015, 4:27 am
#1131
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
This is not on purpose. The airlines don't even like it, because it can make their own predictions quite hard and increases the possibility of unforeseen error fares and fuel dumps.
The complexity arises because the fare rules are allowed to be extremely flexible in what they say. The interaction between so many variables brings about a natural complexity.
If the system were redesigned from the ground up today, it would be very different. But the system is used by thousands of airlines and millions of travel agents worldwide, who all require interoperability at all times. Downtime is not allowed. Billions of dollars sit on this system. It cannot simply be rewritten from scratch.
Also you cannot do round-the-world pricing units or visit-a-continent fares
Retroactive pricing is not supported (for instance today I needed to change my flights midway through a trip, but the fare rules told me I needed to use historical fares in effect when the ticket was issued for the reprice).
Last edited by Calchas; Sep 2, 2015 at 4:36 am
Sep 11, 2015, 2:57 am
#1133
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1
Am I too early? Or in the wrong class?
Newbie here- apologies if I'm in the wrong thread.... my query is Too Early vs Class ??
Same old story - I'm having trouble booking the flights found on ITA..... I've read through several help sites and have followed the general advice - I've given the exact codes/constructions to my Travel Agent and contacted the airline direct.........
Airline first said I was simply too early (flights are 9months away); then said the flights are open, but AUD400 more than ITA.
TravAgent can book the flights but not in the class given by ITA - she is told they are 'closed'. Is this because I am too early? Or her boss said the necessary class isn't available in Australia (though I specified Sales City and Currency in ITA).
Any advice anyone?
Same old story - I'm having trouble booking the flights found on ITA..... I've read through several help sites and have followed the general advice - I've given the exact codes/constructions to my Travel Agent and contacted the airline direct.........
Airline first said I was simply too early (flights are 9months away); then said the flights are open, but AUD400 more than ITA.
TravAgent can book the flights but not in the class given by ITA - she is told they are 'closed'. Is this because I am too early? Or her boss said the necessary class isn't available in Australia (though I specified Sales City and Currency in ITA).
Any advice anyone?
Sep 11, 2015, 3:37 am
#1134
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: ZRH
Programs: LH Senator ★
Posts: 677
For some airlines the ITA availability does not mach the airline data exactly. Therefore a ticket that is visible on ITA might not be bookable. If the airline says that the booking code is closed, they are right.
Sep 11, 2015, 4:58 am
#1135
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
I find many call centre staff don't know what they're talking about. You say "do not book the prime flight, I require exactly AA 1234 in Alpha class" and they go ahead and reserve you a seat on CX 123 in F class and then claim they cannot get the price quote you expected.
"Oh but we can only book the prime flights"
"a, that's not correct; b, why didn't you say that twenty minutes ago when I said I needed the codeshare and not the prime flight" (Patience of a saint needed sometimes ...)
Welcome to FlyerTalk
Hang up and call again
It's possible that ITA is wrong. It's also possible the airline call centre and TA didn't do what you asked. Unfortunately it is becoming more and more difficult to find competent people on the help lines these days. Took me five hours to rebook a flight last week, even though I could see the correct class was available and told them what I wanted. Eventually I found the one competent chap in the whole airline who managed to do it in twenty minutes. So don't give up.
"Oh but we can only book the prime flights"
"a, that's not correct; b, why didn't you say that twenty minutes ago when I said I needed the codeshare and not the prime flight" (Patience of a saint needed sometimes ...)
Newbie here- apologies if I'm in the wrong thread.... my query is Too Early vs Class ??
Same old story - I'm having trouble booking the flights found on ITA..... I've read through several help sites and have followed the general advice - I've given the exact codes/constructions to my Travel Agent and contacted the airline direct.........
Airline first said I was simply too early (flights are 9months away); then said the flights are open, but AUD400 more than ITA.
TravAgent can book the flights but not in the class given by ITA - she is told they are 'closed'. Is this because I am too early? Or her boss said the necessary class isn't available in Australia (though I specified Sales City and Currency in ITA).
Any advice anyone?
Same old story - I'm having trouble booking the flights found on ITA..... I've read through several help sites and have followed the general advice - I've given the exact codes/constructions to my Travel Agent and contacted the airline direct.........
Airline first said I was simply too early (flights are 9months away); then said the flights are open, but AUD400 more than ITA.
TravAgent can book the flights but not in the class given by ITA - she is told they are 'closed'. Is this because I am too early? Or her boss said the necessary class isn't available in Australia (though I specified Sales City and Currency in ITA).
Any advice anyone?
Hang up and call again
It's possible that ITA is wrong. It's also possible the airline call centre and TA didn't do what you asked. Unfortunately it is becoming more and more difficult to find competent people on the help lines these days. Took me five hours to rebook a flight last week, even though I could see the correct class was available and told them what I wanted. Eventually I found the one competent chap in the whole airline who managed to do it in twenty minutes. So don't give up.
Last edited by TWA884; Sep 11, 2015 at 8:39 am Reason: merge consecutive posts
Sep 12, 2015, 2:08 pm
#1136
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: TK E+
Posts: 398
I'm searching for IST-CMB flights with TK, which always have a short (75 min) same-plane connecting in MLE. For some reason, the matrix only shows me these flight with a 24hr+75min layover in MLE... I tried adding both /minconnection and /maxconnection to rule these long connection out and get the short connections in, but I just get no search results...
Any idea how to get the matrix to properly find these flights with the short same-plane connection?
Any idea how to get the matrix to properly find these flights with the short same-plane connection?
Sep 12, 2015, 4:25 pm
#1137
Join Date: May 2007
Location: ORD, DEL
Programs: AA (Plt Pro; 1.5 MM)
Posts: 6,185
I'm searching for IST-CMB flights with TK, which always have a short (75 min) same-plane connecting in MLE. For some reason, the matrix only shows me these flight with a 24hr+75min layover in MLE... I tried adding both /minconnection and /maxconnection to rule these long connection out and get the short connections in, but I just get no search results...
BTW the ITA commands are /minconnect and /maxconnect.
Why not try the TK site?
Sep 12, 2015, 4:28 pm
#1138
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
Maybe minimum legal connection time in MLE exceeds 75 min? Of course if you stay on the same plane, that shouldn't matter but if you have to exit immigration and then back through security, then 75 min might not be enough.
BTW the ITA commands are /minconnect and /maxconnect.
Why not try the TK site?
BTW the ITA commands are /minconnect and /maxconnect.
Why not try the TK site?
Code:
STANDARD.D/D...D/I...I/D...I/I. ONLINE .20 1.00 1.00 1.00 OFFLINE .20 1.00 1.00 1.00 ** OR * ARE ALL Q2-Q2 DD 1.00 **-Q2 DD 1.00 Q2-** DD 1.00 Q2-Q2 DI 1.30 AA-AA DI SUP FLT 6000 - 9099 - FLT 6125 - 6779 **-Q2 DI 1.30 Q2-** DI 1.30 Q2-Q2 ID 2.00 AA-AA ID SUP FLT 6125 - 6779 - FLT 6000 - 9099 Q2-Q2 II 2.00 AA-AA II SUP FLT 6000 - 9099 - FLT 6000 - 9099 **-MU II 3.00 MU-** II 3.00
Sep 12, 2015, 5:05 pm
#1139
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Try:-
IST::TK
CMB
If you search for a connection, there may be a rule that prevents you connecting to a subsequent sector of the same flight, ie you cannot connect IST-MLE then MLE-CMB where they are two sectors of the same flight. That may be why the through flight isn't appearing when you search for a connection.
Sep 13, 2015, 12:35 am
#1140
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,468
Lately, I have seen numerous itineraries pricing out on ITA, which in effect are not bookable due to the listed fare classes in fact not being available.
In my case, most have been business class fares EU - Far East. This has been extremely frustrating and made ITA virtually useless. Sadly, as it has been a wonderfully helpful tool in the past.
Would be glad to learn about a tool, which is indeed reliable.
In my case, most have been business class fares EU - Far East. This has been extremely frustrating and made ITA virtually useless. Sadly, as it has been a wonderfully helpful tool in the past.
Would be glad to learn about a tool, which is indeed reliable.