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Old Nov 17, 08, 6:28 am   #1
 
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Running a laptop without battery ... good idea?

I have a new laptop, which I will use mostly at home. It has a rechargeable Li-ion Battery. Is it a good idea to remove the battery and run the laptop without battery? Will this extend the battery life?
BTW, I did already what was recommended: run the laptop several times only on battery until empty and recharge again.
Thanks.
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Old Nov 17, 08, 6:53 am   #2
 
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It will run fine without the battery. It won't extend the life of the battery because that type of battery needs to be kept charged and used. If you leave it sitting for a while, the battery will die faster, not slower.
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Old Nov 17, 08, 7:07 am   #3
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Conversely, Mrs. Sweet Willie is always after me to make sure that I utilize my laptop while plugged in if possible instead of using the battery. I didnt get an exact reason but she claims it is better for the machine. Any thoughts ?
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Old Nov 17, 08, 7:22 am   #4
 
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If you don't plan on using the battery, discharge it to about 40% and store it in a cool and dry place.

Pretty much all laptops will run fine without battery pack. There are some specific models with their quirks, e.g. ThinkPads with discrete graphics and 60W power adapter will throttle the CPU clock frequency when the battery pack is removed. ThinkPads' power manager allows the user to set charging threshold so the user can achieve the same benefit as removing the battery pack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFAN View Post
BTW, I did already what was recommended: run the laptop several times only on battery until empty and recharge again.
This procedure is only recommended for Ni-Cad and NiMH battery chemistries and in fact can be very bad for Li-ion battery chemistry. Li-ion battery cells can only undergo about 200 to 400 charge cycles before they fail. They also have finite shelf life of around 1 to 3 years.
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Old Nov 17, 08, 7:28 am   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeafFlyer View Post
It will run fine without the battery. It won't extend the life of the battery because that type of battery needs to be kept charged and used. If you leave it sitting for a while, the battery will die faster, not slower.
Are you sure?

I found this on Wikipedia .... should have done this before I posted the question:

Guidelines for prolonging Li-ion battery life
Unlike Ni-Cd batteries, lithium-ion batteries should be charged early and often. However, if they are not used for a long time, they should be brought to a charge level of around 40%60%. Lithium-ion batteries should not be frequently fully discharged and recharged ("deep-cycled") like Ni-Cd batteries, but this is necessary after about every 30th recharge to recalibrate any external electronic "fuel gauge" (e. g. State Of Charge meter). This prevents the fuel gauge from showing an incorrect battery charge.[21]
Li-ion batteries should never be depleted to below their minimum voltage, 2.4 V to 3.0 V per cell.
Li-ion batteries should be kept cool. Ideally they are stored in a refrigerator. Aging will take its toll much faster at high temperatures. The high temperatures found in cars cause lithium-ion batteries to degrade rapidly.
Li-ion batteries should not be frozen [37] (most lithium-ion battery electrolytes freeze at approximately −40 C; however, this is much colder than the lowest temperature reached by household freezers).
Li-ion batteries should be bought only when needed, because the aging process begins as soon as the battery is manufactured.[21]
When using a notebook computer running from fixed line power over extended periods, the battery should be removed,[38] and stored in a cool place so that it is not affected by the heat produced by the computer.
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Old Nov 17, 08, 9:14 am   #6
 
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Although the battery will generally have a life of about 3 years, you'll be changing your laptop by then anyway for a better model. Laptops, unlike desktops cannot be upgraded so have a much lower usable lifespan
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Old Nov 17, 08, 11:35 am   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFAN View Post
Are you sure?

I found this on Wikipedia .... should have done this before I posted the question:

Guidelines for prolonging Li-ion battery life
Unlike Ni-Cd batteries, lithium-ion batteries should be charged early and often. However, if they are not used for a long time, they should be brought to a charge level of around 40%60%. Lithium-ion batteries should not be frequently fully discharged and recharged ("deep-cycled") like Ni-Cd batteries, but this is necessary after about every 30th recharge to recalibrate any external electronic "fuel gauge" (e. g. State Of Charge meter). This prevents the fuel gauge from showing an incorrect battery charge.[21]
Li-ion batteries should never be depleted to below their minimum voltage, 2.4 V to 3.0 V per cell.
Li-ion batteries should be kept cool. Ideally they are stored in a refrigerator. Aging will take its toll much faster at high temperatures. The high temperatures found in cars cause lithium-ion batteries to degrade rapidly.
Li-ion batteries should not be frozen [37] (most lithium-ion battery electrolytes freeze at approximately −40 C; however, this is much colder than the lowest temperature reached by household freezers).
Li-ion batteries should be bought only when needed, because the aging process begins as soon as the battery is manufactured.[21]
When using a notebook computer running from fixed line power over extended periods, the battery should be removed,[38] and stored in a cool place so that it is not affected by the heat produced by the computer.
Well, that's telling you how to store them and I didn't get into that. Ifyou just pull the battery and toss it into a drawer for a long time, don't be surprised if it won't work anymore. If you aren't storing it, then it's best to keep it charged.
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Old Nov 17, 08, 11:42 am   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeafFlyer View Post
Well, that's telling you how to store them and I didn't get into that. Ifyou just pull the battery and toss it into a drawer for a long time, don't be surprised if it won't work anymore. If you aren't storing it, then it's best to keep it charged.
But, it seems to say that if you're generally running from line power you should store rather than using it in the laptop.

Cheers.
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Old Nov 17, 08, 1:00 pm   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msb0b View Post
If you don't plan on using the battery, discharge it to about 40% and store it in a cool and dry place.

This procedure is only recommended for Ni-Cad and NiMH battery chemistries and in fact can be very bad for Li-ion battery chemistry. Li-ion battery cells can only undergo about 200 to 400 charge cycles before they fail. They also have finite shelf life of around 1 to 3 years.
msb0b:

Thanks. I'll do what you recommended


Unfortunately, I did this "BTW, I did already what was recommended: run the laptop several times only on battery until empty and recharge again".
already 3 times, but will stop it. The computer manufacturer recommended it, but I guess it's wrong.
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Old Nov 17, 08, 1:04 pm   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabby View Post
Although the battery will generally have a life of about 3 years, you'll be changing your laptop by then anyway for a better model. Laptops, unlike desktops cannot be upgraded so have a much lower usable lifespan
The battery in my last laptop hat very short life, less than 1 year .. the battery was always installed, even when the laptop was running from a fixed like power.
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Old Nov 17, 08, 1:41 pm   #11
 
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Sometimes, it also depends on how important the current work is to you. If you have a bad power supply, like maybe it trips frequently, having the battery with the power line would work as an Uninterrupted Power Supply and save any work that you might have.
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Old Nov 17, 08, 1:49 pm   #12
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Originally Posted by fone View Post
Sometimes, it also depends on how important the current work is to you. If you have a bad power supply, like maybe it trips frequently, having the battery with the power line would work as an Uninterrupted Power Supply and save any work that you might have.
Very good point. This is the number 1 reason I keep my laptop battery in when the machine is on my desk.
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Old Nov 17, 08, 1:51 pm   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msb0b View Post
ThinkPads' power manager allows the user to set charging threshold so the user can achieve the same benefit as removing the battery pack.
That's the best way to do this. When using the system for long periods of time (weeks) w/o using the battery, set the threshold to 50% or so. You get the benefit of a UPS w/o hurting overall battery lifespan. Just don't forget to fully charge it before you travel.
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Old Nov 17, 08, 7:19 pm   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brp View Post
But, it seems to say that if you're generally running from line power you should store rather than using it in the laptop.

Cheers.
That I don't know about. I just leave it in. I have had 4 laptops. One laptop is 6 years old and I have been using it without the battery for the past 2 years. The bttery worked for 4 years, but wouldn't last as long as it originally did. On the second laptop, the screen went bad after 4 years, but the battery still worked fine. The third one is 2 years old, and the battery gets used a lot, but still lasts for 2 hours. The4th one is this one,and it is is 1.5 years old and still works for several hours on battery power. On all but one of these laptops, I just leave the battery in, when pluggd in, and it seems to have no effect that I can see. That's my experience.
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Old Nov 17, 08, 7:30 pm   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeafFlyer View Post
That I don't know about. I just leave it in. I have had 4 laptops. One laptop is 6 years old and I have been using it without the battery for the past 2 years. The bttery worked for 4 years, but wouldn't last as long as it originally did. On the second laptop, the screen went bad after 4 years, but the battery still worked fine. The third one is 2 years old, and the battery gets used a lot, but still lasts for 2 hours. The4th one is this one,and it is is 1.5 years old and still works for several hours on battery power. On all but one of these laptops, I just leave the battery in, when pluggd in, and it seems to have no effect that I can see. That's my experience.
Oh, I do, too. I was just commenting on what wikipedia seems to be saying here

Cheers.
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