ScottC

It won't stop the diehard pirates and the vast majority of Asian store-in-a-shack resellers, but it will stop the casual copiers, the kind of mom and pop pirates that pick up a copy from the guy at the office who always has a stack of CD-R's in his drawer.

The days where you could install anything from Microsoft with a simple 111-11111 key are long gone, and every pirate they stop is at least one more.

It is amazing how people view software piracy when it's the big bad Microsoft that is being screwed over.

Instead of complaining about how bad Windows is, you should be calling your software vendor demanding a version for the Mac.

murphy

Who in this thread has been sympathetic to software pirates? I'm against piracy whether it's big bad MS, big bad RIAA, big bad MPAA, or anyone else. I don't think people should steal Windows - I think they should use a better OS.

Are you still talking to me? I agree 100%. I think it's a shame that so many people get frustrated with MS and continue to give them business. I understand that there's a lot of lockin - replacing your hardware and software to get away from MS can be a big nut for some people, or can even be impossible. With boot camp and/or virtualization software, though, people can start to make the move slowly. When it's time to replace your computer, buy a Mac, and install your current version of Windows on it. Instead of upgrading windows and apps, begin replacing them with Mac apps. You'll be windows-free before you know it. The windows install onto boot camp will be your last MS product activation.

PTravel

I had looked at the website -- I hadn't heard of WINE before. The software I run isn't shoddily written, but it is "optimized," meaning it needs to be on a very compatible system -- there are PC/Windows systems on which it won't run. "Not much performance difference," could also translate into a considerable performance difference when you're talking about working with video.

Premiere Pro 1.5, AfterEffects 6.5, Encore for authoring, Audition for audio, tmpgenc for transcoding, and a variety of single-task programs for specific effects, e.g. Particle Illusion, Cool 3d Edit, various morphing programs and things like that. Also PhotoShop CS2, a variety of stitching programs, Scenealyzer and Scenealyzer Live and some other programs I'm probably not remembering at the moment.

PTravel

I don't care about what things trigger reactivation. I installed the new NIC because I needed it -- I'm not going to forgo a legitimate and licensed change to my computer because Microsoft, by virtue of its monopoly position, thinks its okay to put viruses on my machine.

I've already explained it. I've dealt with Microsoft a lot, not just as a customer, but as a lawyer involved in half-a-dozen or more lawsuits. Microsoft has a corporate aesthetic which is unique -- I've never encountered it when litigating against any other major company. The short version is, Microsoft regards itself as a sovereign nation, rather than a corporate citizen, and litigating against them is more like going to war with a small, but very well-armed country, than going to court against a hostile business entity.

I spoke to a total of 8 people over the course of an hour and a half. Only the last one understood the issue AND was willing to provide a solution without forcing me to disclose personal information that is none of Microsoft's business.

Yeah -- that would have been nice, had there been an activation wizard where Microsoft said it was supposed to be.

I'm sure it will, but not the way you think. Had this happened on a weekday, instead of a Friday night, I would have called Microsoft's outside counsel and discussed the license violation.

Note that we're talking apples and oranges -- the presence of a pirated key provides a reasonable basis for de-activating a Windows installation. The substitution of a gigabit NIC for a 100 mbps NIC does not. Coincidentally, I was reading a test evaluation of Vista by PC World tonight. According to them, Vista exacts a significant performance hit, even on systems that are designed to accept it. To get almost the same level of performance, you need a Core 2 Duo CPU and at least 2 gigabytes of RAM, as well as a fast, dedicated graphics card. On the laptop side, it sounds like the Vaio SZ is the only machine that will give satisfactory (meaning equivalent) performance.

I muck around in Linux a bit because I have a Tivo that I've hacked. Though I'd hardly consider myself a Linux expert, I definitely like what I've seen -- lightening multitasking on far less powerful CPUs with nary a crash.

PTravel

So what's your point, Scott? It's never happened to you, therefore it hasn't happened? I really don't understand your positions in this thread. Do you work for Microsoft, or do you simply like to disagree with me (past history would seem to suggest the latter)?

sllevin

Unfortunately, the NIC is the only thing there that has a guaranteed unique serial number which is determinable in a very standard manner. And the truth is, most folks don't actually change the NIC all that often -- these days, they are built into the motherboard, which has become the broad definition of 'system.'

Steve

HobokenFlyer

Christ, I must be lucky...I upgraded my computer 1.5 years ago...I was running an old P3-866 running a store bought Full Version of XP Pro.

I designed a brand new box with a P4-3.0 and just took the hard drive from the old box and stuck it in the new one (I know it was bad form, but I had some software that I DID NOT want to bother reinstalling and some stuff which I have lost the disks)...

Well XP Pro booted (after some hardware updates) FINE. No new activation...at least to my recollection....I even changed the NIC at one point....

Maybe because it was an old Ver 1 version of XP Pro and it didn't have some of the fancy stuff yet.... I don't know and I don't care!

- HF

muddy

The request for the personal information in order to re-activate was in conflict with the EULA, but other than that was there really any other violation of the EULA (I cant see one)? If you did sue or otherwise approach MSFT counsel what would you ask for ... 90 minutes billed at your rate ... or would you honor the EULA yourself and only ask for the original purchase price of the software?

Seriously, I can understand the aggravation, but what are you really wanting at this point? Just to rant? (I can certainly understand that .... I probably would too).

PTravel

As I've explained several times, here in California (and in most other jurisdictions) there is a warranty of merchantability and a couple of other implied warranties. The EULA, itself, is a license to use the software. By de-activating the software without reason, Microsoft has breached that license. By demanding personal information to un-de-activate the software, Microsoft has breached that license.

If I did sue, it would either be in small claims court for fraud (for which punitive damages are available), or as a class action suit.

Well, of course I want to rant. That's why I wrote the OP and put it between \rant and \rant-off. You're kidding, right?

muddy

Not trying to be argumentative, but this has truly piqued my curiosity. I am especially interested in your line of thinking in the matter since you are an attorney.

I'd agree on 1 out of three of your points (the one demanding personal info to reactivate) but the EULA explcitly states there is a possibility of a reactivation requirement after hardware changes. How do you see any fraud in any of this? Some sort of MSFT conspiracy to boost sales through deactivation? ... do you really think that is sellable?

The comments I made about ranting were an attempt to soften the post so I wouldnt appear confrontational ... you know .... I didnt want to appear to be being an ... ...

murphy

WINE isn't going to work for you. And, there's no current version of Premier for the Mac - Adobe killed it when Apple bought their own video editing software. All of that software would run at the same speed in Boot Camp as it does on your Windows machine now. Since Adobe is bringing Production Studio back to Macs, you could buy the Mac version when you upgrade, and you'd be done with Windows. The next version of Parallels is supposed to support hardware video acceleration. If it does, then all that software should be usable under Parallels, making a switch much easier.

I understand you don't have much interest in doing this, and I don't blame you. It would be somewhat painful. I sometimes put up with some pain in order to avoid companies I don't like. If you feel the same, switching is an option, and many Mac users would be willing to help you. It's something to think about before shelling out for Vista.

GadgetFreak

I think he is saying that if the licensing agreement disagrees with California law, California law prevails. And the inactivation violates the California requirements.

muddy

Wow! If thats true I would be shocked.

ScottC

Any answer on this one? I'm curious whether the NIC was working (with correct drivers) when you tried to reactivate.

ScottC

Based on what? Let's not pretend Microsoft suddenly decided to deactivate a perfectly working machine, they deactivated a machine that in their eyes had undergone a significant hardware change.

I'm (seriously) very interested in learning how California law can invalidate an EULA that applies to the rest of the world. If Microsoft were randomly turning off machines for the fun of it then I'd be in line to sue them, but the user is on record explaining what he did to make it deactivate itself.