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Old Jan 9, 06, 1:34 pm   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinniped
Yeah, I agree...I don't see anything ethically wrong with viewing a hard-drive copy of a Netflix DVD and then deleting it before you return the disc. It's not a question of whether you'd get caught - you wouldn't - and I don't even think it's a question of right and wrong. You aren't violating the spirit of your Netflix subscription (e.g., using the strategy to hoard movies on a cheap plan) and you aren't sharing or retaining the content.
It's hard to argue that it's not a question of right and wrong when it is explicily prohibited by Netflix.

All content included on the Netflix Web site and delivered to subscribers as part of the service, including DVDs, text, graphics, logos, designs, photographs, button icons, images, audio/video clips, digital downloads, data compilations, and software, is the property of Netflix, Inc., or its suppliers and is protected by United States and international copyright laws.

Netflix reserves the right to terminate your membership hereunder if Netflix, in its sole and absolute discretion, believes that you are in violation of this paragraph, such violations including the copying of DVDs rented to you by us or the copying or other unauthorized use of our proprietary content. Netflix does not promote, foster or condone the copying of DVDs or any other infringing activity.



I'm nobody's Nanny, so do whatever you please, but don't try to justify using incorrect facts. It is indeed a violation of the TOS. And to do it, you most likely need to violate the DMCA also.
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Old Jan 9, 06, 2:17 pm   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPRich
It is indeed a violation of the TOS. And to do it, you most likely need to violate the DMCA also.
It's been a while since I read the RIAA v. Diamond case, and I'd forgotten that it was about AHRA and not actual copyright law. You are therefore correct that the case doesn't make it legal to copy DVDs, but the rationale that Diamond used certainly lends weight to the argument that DVD space-shifting should be legal (and I have yet to find a case that says flat out that it's illegal).

Furthermore, the Netflix TOS forbids violation of "United States and international copyright laws" and "copying of DVDs rented." Space-shifting the content of your DVD is arguably neither a violation of any copyright law (the DMCA isn't really copyright law) nor technically "copying" a DVD (it's "space-shifting," not "copying," right? ).
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Old Jan 9, 06, 2:32 pm   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPRich
It's hard to argue that it's not a question of right and wrong when it is explicily prohibited by Netflix.

All content included on the Netflix Web site and delivered to subscribers as part of the service, including DVDs, text, graphics, logos, designs, photographs, button icons, images, audio/video clips, digital downloads, data compilations, and software, is the property of Netflix, Inc., or its suppliers and is protected by United States and international copyright laws.

Netflix reserves the right to terminate your membership hereunder if Netflix, in its sole and absolute discretion, believes that you are in violation of this paragraph, such violations including the copying of DVDs rented to you by us or the copying or other unauthorized use of our proprietary content. Netflix does not promote, foster or condone the copying of DVDs or any other infringing activity.



I'm nobody's Nanny, so do whatever you please, but don't try to justify using incorrect facts. It is indeed a violation of the TOS. And to do it, you most likely need to violate the DMCA also.
(1) I never said it wasn't a violation of their TOS. I've never read their TOS: I just assumed it said "Don't copy our stuff" in it. I simply stated my opinion that it didn't violate the spirit of the agreement with them. I have absolutely no doubts that Netflix disagrees - so be it.

(2) To me, there's still no question of right and wrong. I think if the OP did what she initially proposes - temporarily space-shifts a DVD and then deletes the file before she returns the DVD - she's ethically right. (Legally, I don't think this specific case has been fought. Furthermore, the MPAA would never file this particular suit for fear that the OP would be found at least partially if not wholly in the right, potentially strengthening the rights of content users. They want cases they can win in a big, splashy way to deter active file-sharers.) The TOS language you've provided is meaningless: Netflix reserves the right to terminate anyone's membership, anytime, for any reason as it is. And they don't foster, promote, condone, blah blah blah DVD copying. Duh. We knew that.

Again, my recommendation is to NOT space-shift the DVD, because it's simply easier and better for the subscriber to watch using the disc itself and then mail from the airport (or wherever) when you are done.
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Old Jan 9, 06, 2:34 pm   #19
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Which is worse?

(1) me copying a Netflix-rented DVD to my laptop hard
drive, watch in inflight once, and deleteing the DVD
image.

(2) me having a party with 20 friends... everybody
watching it on the projection screen in my living room.


In scenario (1), they make money by charging me the
monthly fee. In scenario (2), they potentiall loose the 19
other rental/sales of the DVDs after I let my friends watch
it together. Yet (1) is technically illegal, while (2) is
perfectly legal right now.



I think I'm begging to get the logic of the MPAA/RIAA
groups. If I work for them, I'd try to get the Congress to
pass a law banning scenario (2)....
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Old Jan 9, 06, 3:15 pm   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SylviaCaras
Is it really possible to copy NetFlix DVDs to a hard drive? I thought those disks were protected.

I travel without the DVD drive and was thinking about this for two long trips coming up. But I'd prefer TV series segments to a movie, am looking into how to get those.

Sylvia
If you've got a TiVo, TiVo2Go is one solution. For ReplayTV, there's DVArchive.

My personal solution is a desktop PC with a Hauppage TV Tuner card, GB-PVR, comskip/comclean, and lots of hard drive space. While I'm away, GB-PVR is recording my favorite shows to MPEG, then scrubbing them free of commercials with comskip/comclean. When I get home, they're ready for transfer to my laptop or burning to DVD.

A standalone PVR with a built-in DVD burner is much simpler to set up and use, though . . . but then you have to watch commercials
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Old Jan 9, 06, 3:18 pm   #21
 
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technically

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottC
No it is not sadly.

You are allowed to make a personal copy of a DVD you OWN, but since that doesn't work in the case of Netflix you are not legally permitted to do so. Of course, whether or not you do so is up to you
technically, i don't believe even copying a DVD you OWN, is legal. The legalit - or illegality comes in the breaking of the ENCRYPTION means on the DVD in order to copy it. Ownership was hard to prove and track, or enforce. But, making a copy involved without question, cracking the encryption and therefore they went after that as the reason for possible prosecution.
At least that is what ultimatly nailed DVD 123, Xcopy and DVD decryptor.

ooops, you didn't hear those names from ME!
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Old Jan 9, 06, 3:57 pm   #22
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Sign up for peerflix.com. You trade your own DVDs. Thus, any DVDs you receive you own until you pass them on. It costs a service fee of $1 for each DVD you receive (but not the ones you send). You mail them to the next person in an envelope with no DVD case; it costs just the cost of a first class stamp.
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Old Jan 9, 06, 5:18 pm   #23
 
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please, never try and get a job for the mpaa!

logically your argument might make sense, but the mpaa (and riaa for that matter) haven't exactly built reputations of being bastions of reason. myself, I think copying a DVD you own to your laptop is legitimate fair use. I can, however, see how (1) you present isn't something netflix would like - it opens the door to renting nonstop, and just copying each DVD to a hard drive to watch later. though I guess if it means you return it sooner, it's better for netflix...then again they have no way to force you to delete the image, and we all know how much it bothers the mpaa/riaa when they don't have total power over things. if anything I'd say checkout movielink which someone posted earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyMoore
Which is worse?

(1) me copying a Netflix-rented DVD to my laptop hard
drive, watch in inflight once, and deleteing the DVD
image.

(2) me having a party with 20 friends... everybody
watching it on the projection screen in my living room.


In scenario (1), they make money by charging me the
monthly fee. In scenario (2), they potentiall loose the 19
other rental/sales of the DVDs after I let my friends watch
it together. Yet (1) is technically illegal, while (2) is
perfectly legal right now.



I think I'm begging to get the logic of the MPAA/RIAA
groups. If I work for them, I'd try to get the Congress to
pass a law banning scenario (2)....
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Old Jan 9, 06, 6:18 pm   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SylviaCaras
Is it really possible to copy NetFlix DVDs to a hard drive? I thought those disks were protected.
They're "regular" DVDs, so the only copy protection they have is the CSS copy-protection system found on all DVDs. So you can copy them and rip them to your HDD, though doing requires breaking the CSS system and therefore is in violation of the DMCA and probably a few other laws, as noted.
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Old Jan 10, 06, 9:59 pm   #25
 
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So if one was interested in ripping a DVD to a HD to watch later, where could one find that information. . ... ..
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Old Jan 10, 06, 10:11 pm   #26
 
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don't think

I don't think post 21 had any information
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Old Jan 10, 06, 10:28 pm   #27
 
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nmenaker I need sleep in chunks of more than 2 hours here and there as it will help my mind

Perhaps a nice trans con, will help . . . . .

Thanks
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Old Jan 11, 06, 5:34 am   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by back seat
So if one was interested in ripping a DVD to a HD to watch later, where could one find that information. . ... ..
Why here on TravTech forum of course......I'm "certain" if you do a search you'll come up with a number of options...!

Best wishes, Dave
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Old Jan 11, 06, 8:00 am   #29
 
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Why bother with renting a DVD to get a movie annd then copying it? I generally download a few episodes of CSI or whatever when I'm back on weekends in order to view them the following week wherever I happen to be. Bittorrent works well for me.
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Old Jan 11, 06, 11:00 am   #30
 
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maybe a little OT now... but any of you have any opinions on AnyDVD? Does it work well? slow down the puter at all?
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