Dubai Stu

I like the Surface 3 (non pro), but with USB-C charging, and island keyboard, Core M, unlocked LTE modem, ten hours battery life, island keyboard, glass trackpad a/l/a Mac/Surface Pro 4, detachable keyboard, two pounds, 8 gigs RAM, 256 to 512G SSD, and power bank charging. Willing to pay $1,300 to $1,400.

nkedel

Yes, I've seen that as well (and seen cases where promotions on the small-business site pricing beat the company "Premier" website discounts. A call to our sales rep usually fixed that.)

maortega15

So basically its a 15" screen in a 14 inch footprint but wider than a standard 14 inch?

What would you select between the 13" and 15" for my stated use?

Many thanks for all your help.

nkedel

Pretty much... and wider than the current crop of smaller 14" machines, at least.

tl;dr: I'd select the 15 if you're willing to stretch your budget for a more future-proof machine, but for present needs and the $1300 budget you stated the 13 is the better value.

--

Well, the XPS 15 is no longer orderable online -- probably because they got too many orders in the first two days. -- so you'd need to call about pricing, configuration, and lead times, while the XPS 13 is still up for online orders. If you really need it soon, I'd expect the lead times to be better on the one they're not limiting orders to the phone.

That said -- I'm personally a big believer in getting the biggest screen that I can in a size and weight I can tolerate, so I'd lean towards the 15". You started off with a preference for 13" models, which are just plain smaller than I'd want as a primary machine.

Ultimately, I don't think you can go much wrong with either.

XPS 15 is enough faster -- even in the base i3 config -- that you are getting a somewhat more future-proof machine, but it's not a huge difference, and the cost of going up models gets expensive fast. In the immediate term, nothing you mentioned really seems to indicate a strong advantage to the 15 otherwise.

Sadly, they don't make the configuration for the XPS 15 that I think would be the one you'd really want (base dual-core processor/no GPU, but bigger 84Whr battery and 256gb PCIe SSD.) You might be able to call and have them quote it out as a custom order -- I'd expect it not to be too horribly expensive.

Alternatively, if you're comfortable doing it, getting the base model and upgrading to an aftermarket 2.5" SSD shouldn't be awful -- it would be about $100 for a decent 240-256gb SSD, and a trivial amount for the special Torx screwdriver one needs to open these, but you'd need to be comfortable creating restore or reinstall media, and reinstalling Windows on top of opening up the machine to get at the hard drive. And it still doesn't have the bigger battery.

If I'm remembering the configs right, the $1749 model would great for you (although the CPU and GPU are overkill, the CPU at least is good future proofing), but it kind of blows the budget.

If cost is a factor, the config you'd want of the XPS 13 would probably be the 2nd one up ($999) + the upgrade to the 256gb SSD (+$150) which is well within budget (at least before warranty upgrade.)

The high-DPI screens are really nice, but the $300+ difference on both models is probably a budget buster.

A big unknown is the battery life; the prior-generation (with 1.5 generations back processor) I've got has thoroughly underwhelming battery life, and both models are supposed to improve on it quite a bit. Given "the longer the better" you still really want the bigger 84Whr battery if you can get it, and even there the battery life on the 13 is probably still better.

I'd strongly recommend upgrading to their premium support and adding accidental damage service; the latter is probably worth it even if you are extremely careful with your machines as it pretty much turns the thing into "no questions asked" whereas without it there can be a bit of a blame game around defects.

BTW on the business site they have a small promo running:
Save an extra $50 on PCs $499 and up with code: SAVE$50PC
Save an extra $100 on PCs $899 and up with code: SAVE$100PC
(don't know if those are also valid on the consumer site)

maortega15

Thanks mate. I'll probably go with the 13 inch then. Like you say, the 15 inch is wider than most 14 inch laptops so I think it would be a hassle to bring. Like I've said, I currently have a studioXPS 16 which is really huge not mentioning its weight. A huge mistake on my part as I thought I could handle carrying it around. Also, it still has a Core Duo processor which is really outdated. I'm sure the 13 inch would be a huge relief.

nkedel

You're welcome. As I said, I don't think you can go very wrong either way.

--

Compared to the Studio XPS 16, I'd expect either of them to be a huge relief. I looked up specs on the Studio XPS 16, and those things could run up to nearly 8 pounds depending on the equipment, and started at 6.5.

The XPS 15 is just under 4lb (they don't vary in weight much; 2 more LiPo battery cells or a hard drive aren't much different), and it shaves about an inch off each of the footprint dimensions (I'm seeing 15 x 10" for the Studio XPS 16), and the XPS 13 just under 3lb.

Both of them are more than a full inch thinner -- the slightly thicker XPS 15 is only 0.7" at the thicker end, while it sounds like the Studio XPS 16 was pushing nearly 2" thick (ouch!)

I wouldn't expect an inch in width to be a big deal relative to the 14" models, but relative to the TINY XPS 13 (12" x 8" basically) it's a much bigger difference. For me, depth makes a much bigger different in being able to use it in tight quarters -- since extra depth also becomes extra height when it's open it makes for needing more space in two dimensions... and thickness is the main dimension I notice when packing.

Yes, the Core Duo processors are very dated. Really, anything older than April 2011 (when Sandy Bridge aka Core i 2000-series/2nd generation came out) is starting to get quite long in the tooth.

If the new Skylake one comes out before you buy your machine, the one other machine (as I think I said up-thread) I'd encourage you to look at is the Lenovo X1 Carbon... assuming you can tolerate the styling, which is a bit plain compared to the Dells but a good bit less staid than the rest of the Thinkpad line. It might be the happy medium size-wise, and the build quality is better than the Haswell-generation XPS models (haven't had long enough with the early-2015 XPS 13 to say if it's an improvement on the slightly bulkier Haswell one, and of course, haven't seen the brand new XPS 15 in person yet.)

I wouldn't consider the Broadwell X1 over the Dells with the newer processors, so if time is still tight, I'd go with one of the Dells (and that also probably favors the 13")

nkedel

I'm not really looking for a travel machine or an ultrabook (my underpowered, supercheap Dell Venue 11 works great for that!) but more for a relatively portable workstation replacement.

My own wish-list of features is a bit different; ideally it woulds start with near-ultrabook thin-and-light business chassis like the Dell Latitude E74x0 or Lenovo T440s:

• The biggest screen they can jam in with the smallest bezels without making the machine bigger, preferably in 16:10 or 3:2 aspect ratio rather than 16.9.
• Anti-glare screen, not glossy!
• Reasonable resolution (1920x1200 or 1920x1280 would be good!), not HiDPI/retina, but with high contrast and broad gamut.
• Couldn't care less about a touch screen
• Ideally, 4 DIMM sockets for up to 64gb of memory, although I could live with two. I'd probably start with just one 16gb DIMM for now.
• A current-generation quad core i7 with Iris Pro graphics (I don't think they have one announced yet for Skylake), no internal discrete GPU
• The biggest battery they can shove in with everything else, but at least about 5 hours of regular use
• Ideally, a relatively compact charger -- if possible one under 90W for use on planes.
• Dual user-upgradeable SSD mini-card slots (ideally one m.2, one full size mini-PCIe and both capable of either PCIe or SATA), no 2.5" drive; whether it was from the manufacturer or upgrading myself, I'd want 2x 1TB drives (the full size mini-PCIe one could jut come out of my present system.)
• Full-size, full-stroke, 7-row sculpted/non-island style keyboard roughly along the lines of the Lenovo X201/T410s/etc generation. No g-damn numeric keypad! (Better still, if I'm dreaming tactile mechanical key switches along the lines of the Cherry MX Brown)
• The old-style Toshiba Accupoint pointing stick (with the larger and smaller half circle buttons rather than the side-by-side IBM/Lenovo style)... failing that, dual pointing devices as on most Dell and Lenovo business models, with real buttons for both trackpad and pointing stick.)
• Thunderbolt 2 + HDMI for video out, at least two regular USB-A ports, a physical Ethernet port, and a full-size SD card slot (one that protrudes when inserted is OK)
• Docking via the Thunderbolt 2 port, including external GPU support -- and with a relatively beefy (or one I can upgrade myself.)
• m.2 WWAN card slot, preferably without a BIOS whitelist
• m.2 WLAN card slot, preferably without a BIOS whitelist, with 3x3 antenna support.
• Standard business grade webcam, speakers, etc.
• fingerprint reader.
• physical airplane mode switch

As listed above, I'd expect to pay somewhere around $3000 fully equipped -- maybe closer to $2500 if I could actually move over the existing SSD mini-card from my current system.) once we're including the external GPU, 16gb of memory. The big SSD and the external GPU would be big driving costs, though -- I'd love to see the base chassis for the system with a more modest drive config and no external GPU should be at least a little bit under $2000...

maortega15

Thanks again. I'll be waiting for Skylake. It's only a few more weeks and I'm sure it will be worth the wait over getting a Broadwell based laptop.

As I thought I made up my mind in deciding an ultrabook, I was wrong. Now I'm having trouble deciding between the Dell XPS 13 and HP Spectre x360. Both have quality looks, similar specs and gorgeous screens.

piper28

I had a studio xps 16 before I bought my previous generation xps 15. I will say it's night and day different in terms of size and weight. That said, I can certainly understand the feeling that the xps 15 is still too big to travel with. While the new one is slightly smaller than the one I have, I'd find it a little awkward myself. Quite frankly, I'm also not sure how well it'll hold up over time if it gets much abuse from traveling either.

I'm still using an old 12" laptop (e6200 maybe?) for what travelling I do. With an ssd, it's held up suprisingly well, and I bought it refurbished for a ridiculously cheap price. I tend to prefer smaller for traveling and larger for other use, so I end up with multiple laptops. I know the guy I work with falls into nkedel's camp of wanting a screen as large as he can get and still carry it around reasonably (he's actually using a macbook pro 15 these days).

nkedel

For both Dell and HP, Skylake is orderable now, and the lead times at least for Dell didn't look horrible yesterday. (Well, for the 13")

The biggest differences are that the HP is a convertible (and a very little larger/heavier/cheaper), and the Dell is purely a laptop (and a very little smaller/lighter/more expensive.)

The Skylake XPS 13 is available for ordering right now, although they are also still selling the Broadwell one. Look for the "New XPS 13"; if you do go with Dell, look closely at what you're ordering -- it should be very clear which you're getting from the processor model number - i5-6200U is what you probably want. (There are also model numbers -- the Broadwell model is 9343, the Skylake model is 9350, but those are harder to find than the CPU model.)

It looks like HP also has references to both Broadwell and Skylake, and the Skylake ones are orderable. It looks like the x360-13t build-to-order option is what you want if you want to be sure you're getting Skylake.

The Spectre x360 looks like it's a nicely-designed convertible except fo rthe keyboard, and while it's about 1/2 larger in each dimension footprint-wise, that's still a very compact little machine. Price, comparably equipped, is a little bit better -- $1049 vs. $1149 (with 8gb of memory, i5-6200U processor, and 256gb SSD.)

Purely cosmetically, I hate the look of the metallic color keyboard and I don't much like the keyboard layout (squashed arrow keys!) but I wouldn't rule it out even for myself because of that.

I have no idea about HP quality or warranty service these days.

maortega15

Many thanks nkedel for all your help, suggestions and contributions. It's great to see constant contributions from people like yourself. ^

I really like the design and finishes of both models. They both have cons that wouldn't bother me that much. If I decide on the hp, I probably would not use it as a tablet. Just a regular laptop. If I still can't decide between the two, I might have to resort to eenie meenie miney mo! I have popped in a Microsoft Store a few months back when their models were still Broadwell, and I really liked both models in person. The weight is a huge difference to what I have now. The hp might be heavier than the Dell XPS 13, but still light.

To everyone else, anyone know how HP's quality and durability goes?

nkedel

If you don't plan to use it as a tablet, I'd look at it this way : is it worth a half inch and about 4/10ths of a pound to save $100?

They're still both very light. If you want to get it from the Microsoft Store, you probably will need to wait a few more weeks for stock to come in, and the configurations they stock may make your decision for you -- you wanted 256gb of storage, and nobody should buy 4gb RAM machines anymore, and if they have one equipped that way as an i5 and the other one only as an i7 (which IMO is a waste of money) that could make the price difference a bit bigger in one or the other's favor.

If you're ordering direct, you should be able to get exactly what you want in either model.

maortega15

If the quality of HP is better overall compared to Dell, I'd consider it.


I can always order it online if I order via Microsoft. The con with ordering with Microsoft is that configurations are limited. For example, I'm really interested in the XPS 13 with an i5, 256GB SSD, 8GB memory and Non-touch FHD display. Microsoft doesn't have that option. If I want the i5 option with the 256GB SSD and 8GB of memory, I have to get the touch version if I get it via Microsoft. And pricing is great direct. I can negotiate a better deal and ask for some extras. I'll probably make some calls soon.

timfountain

I just purchased the Dell Venue 11 Pro 7140. Got to say I am impressed. The Intel Core M-5Y71 is fast, the 10.8" 1080p IPS screen is nice and with a 512GB M2 SATA, 8GB of RAM it flies. The speed of the SSD is amazing. It boots windows 10 in about 6 seconds. Coupled with 12+ hours of battery life and a miniature charger, it is this road warriors dream.

Only negative was the dock, which was useless and didn't work at all well. You can't charge the keyboard battery whilst it is docked, the display port never worked and the HDMI stopped working once I upgraded to Windows 10. I returned it and am using a Lenovo USB 3.0 dock, which works great.

nkedel

I've got the 7130, which is the prior model; also 8GB of RAM but only a 256gb SSD. Not sure how the i5-4xxxY processor compares to the M-5Y71, but I definitely wouldn't call it flying... it's certainly tolerably quick, and the battery life is good but not as good as you're seeing on the newer one.

BTW, if it's the same keyboard as the 7139 you can charge the keyboard battery separately from the rest of the tablet with any regular USB charger. Very handy if you want to charge both at once.

One nice thing with these machines is that they are somewhat modular; the battery is replaceable, and the wlan, wwan, and m.2 SSD slots are all user accessible. I added an aftermarket WWAN card to mine, and will probably upgrade the SSD one of these days.