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Old Oct 25, 2012, 7:03 pm
  #31  
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Originally Posted by glennaa11
Or there are plenty of laptops on the market with Windows 7. And they will continue to be available for a while.

I just got an Asus Ultrabook that I really like. Except for one major issue...it shuts itself off at random times. I returned the first one that did it. The second one has shutdown randomly 3x in a the week I have been using it. I really don't want to have to send it back too so I am waiting to see how things progress. But it is fast, weight less than 3 pounds, 13.3" screen, 4GB RAM, 128 GB SSD. Very travel friendly. 2 USB 3.0 ports, SD card reader...even comes with a USB-RJ45 network dongle. For $900 at the Microsoft web store. It comes with MS "Signature" service which means they clean off all the crap ware before you get it which is a big time saver. And you get 90 days of free tech support. Returning the first laptop was a painless process.
Most machines that will run XP can run Win7.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 8:18 pm
  #32  
 
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For some reason I've been researching this.

arstechnica best described W8 power user issues.

Windows, reimagined: A review of Windows 8 - arstechnica.com

Mixed-use mayhem

Windows 8 provides a solid desktop experience. Its tablet experience is, in spite of the rough edges, workable, with many enjoyable parts. And as long as you stick to one way of working or the other, you can be pretty happy.

Where it falls down, hard, is when you try to mix and match. Microsoft has done precious little to bring the Metro environment and the desktop environment together. They're two separate worlds. The charms, in particular, are off-limits to desktop apps. The Search charm won't search the foreground desktop app. Desktop apps can't share or be share targets. Desktop apps don't know about devices, and don't store their settings behind the Settings charm.

This makes a mix-and-match approach deeply flawed. I can't even send an e-mail via Outlook from the Metro world. Outlook. Probably one of the most important business applications of all time, and Metro doesn't even know it exists.

We get the same problem in reverse, too. If you use the Metro Mail app as your e-mail client, you might expect that you could right-click a file in Explorer, and then go to Send to, Mail Recipient, and for this to create a mail in the Mail app. You might expect that, but it won't work. Send to Mail Recipient can only use desktop Mail apps. How about sending someone a URL to a webpage from within the desktop Internet Explorer using the Share charm? Nope, not an option; desktop Internet Explorer can't send to the Share charm. Nothing on the desktop can.

Making matters worse is that, by default, Windows 8 is configured to use this mix-and-match approach. I already mentioned things like defaulting to using the Metro Photos app instead of the desktop Photo Viewer app, so let's explore that in detail. I often get sent ZIP files of images (product photos, that kind of thing). So I unzip them all into a directory somewhere. I then want to look at them, so I double-click one of them. In Windows 7, this would open up Photo Viewer, and I can just use the arrow keys to cycle through all the images in the same directory. Quick and easy.

In Windows 8, however, the first image opens up in the Metro Photo app. And here's the problem: the Metro Photo app can't view the rest of the images in the directory. Why? It doesn't have permission. It's another one of those security things: Metro apps can't read arbitrary directories on disk. They can only read files explicitly selected by the user, and files in one of the libraries (which, incidentally, can only be managed from the desktop).

So instead, you open the first file, then either quit the Photo app or alt-tab back to Explorer, open the next file, then switch back to Explorer, open the next, and so on.

OK, you might say, so put the folder in the Pictures library. Do that, and the Metro Photo app does the right thing; you can open the first file and then navigate to its siblings just fine, without having to flip back to Explorer the whole time. But I may not want to put the pictures in the Pictures library. I probably want to put them in the Documents library, alongside the PDFs, Word documents, and Markdown files that comprise a piece of work. But if I do that, the same problem occurs. The Metro Photos app can't read from the Documents library. It's only allowed into the Pictures one.

The separation also makes the Start screen's Live Tiles much less useful. Again, to use Outlook as an example: Outlook can't display Live Tiles. It can't give me a mail notification on the Start screen, nor on the lock screen. It can't show me my next appointment on the Start or lock screens either. Why? Because only Metro applications are allowed Live Tiles.

This is vexing in Windows 8; it's arguably even more annoying in Windows Server 2012. The Start screen could make an ideal at-a-glance console, with Live Tiles to indicate the health of various system components and services. Except it can't do this, because doing that would require Live Tiles that were generated by desktop applications, system services, and PowerShell scripts.

There is a hard and dividing line between the two worlds. Far from allowing seamless switching between the two environments, they barely even acknowledge the other's existence. It's extremely limited, and it means that as a person who has to use the desktop for some things, I find myself avoiding Metro apps for all things. Bridging the gap is just too painful and annoying.

The only silver lining to this cloud is that there's no real technical reason for these restrictions. It would be relatively easy to, for example, allow desktop applications to participate in the share contract and other mechanisms. I've heard claims that other scenarios are being considered too, such as allowing drag and drop from the desktop into Metro apps. So the situation could improve in some future version.

Right now, though, it's a big pain point. Until this gap is closed, it leaves Windows 8 feeling like two separate operating systems poorly grafted together. You can never avoid the join entirely, but your happiness with Windows 8 will depend heavily on just how often you have to cross over. The more you try to treat the two worlds as equal, integrated peers, the worse Windows 8 gets. The more you stick to one paradigm or the other, the better it is.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 8:38 pm
  #33  
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I have a Netbook just sitting here collecting dust. I'm installing Windows 8 Pro as we speak. Might as well, right?
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 9:23 pm
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by pseudoswede
Might as well, right?
Why sure!

Free imagining, I'd be most tempted to put it on a media unit.
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 9:30 pm
  #35  
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Originally Posted by glennaa11
I just got an Asus Ultrabook that I really like. Except for one major issue...it shuts itself off at random times. I returned the first one that did it. The second one has shutdown randomly 3x in a the week I have been using it. .
I believe they will all do it no matter how many times you return it. It seems to be a common problem with them. Some have reported if they get a cooling fan it helps, but that sort of defeats the purpose of a ultra notebook. Asus won't admit they have a problem, but there's plenty of user posts about the same issue
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Old Oct 25, 2012, 9:53 pm
  #36  
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That was an exercise in failure. My Netbook's native resolution is not supported. Back to Windows 7.
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 12:11 pm
  #37  
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A client of mine was looking at W8 in a store and asked a few questions as you might expect. They were tempted to get a touchscreen to go with this new bad boy OS to, as the sales assistant said ""get the most out of it" (or "make it usable" as they later said to me). It was only after a play with the thing that they were unconvinced and one major thing was the 2 instances of IE. So they asked about this and when all they got was an unconvincing response from the sales assistant, decided it just wasn't worth it.
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 1:01 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by cordelli
I believe they will all do it no matter how many times you return it. It seems to be a common problem with them. Some have reported if they get a cooling fan it helps, but that sort of defeats the purpose of a ultra notebook. Asus won't admit they have a problem, but there's plenty of user posts about the same issue
yes, I discovered many of those posts online about the Zenbook problems.

I just installed Windows 8 on the Lenovo laptop mentioned above. It was a pretty painless operation. None of the applications moved, but all of my setting migrated effortlessly.

So far I have to say that I like Windows 8 and don't really get all of the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments over it. If you really want the desktop there's a big button on the start page that takes you right to it. And I kind of like having the calendar, people, etc apps on the start page. Plus there's a direct link to Chrome which I downloaded that opens it right up. Since most of what I do with this computer is web surfing that's pretty much all I need. Performance seems pretty snappy. And given how bogged down Vista used to be on this computer it is a breath of fresh air. No "not responding" messages...not yet anyway.
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 1:23 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by glennaa11
If you really want the desktop there's a big button on the start page that takes you right to it.

Funny, info week put up a review today saying the same thing, that it really was not as hard as some people were making it out to be.

A good example is the options for switching back and for between the Metro interface and the standard, Windows desktop (which, despite complaints by some critics, is easy to access and very similar to the Windows 7 desktop).

There are three ways to get from Metro to Windows Explorer. You can toggle back and forth with the Windows key, move the cursor to the bottom left of the display and click, or tap the Live Tile labeled "Desktop." Even when using the XPS 12 in clamshell mode, I invariably chose the latter. It just seemed more intuitive.
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 1:34 pm
  #40  
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Originally Posted by cordelli
Funny, info week put up a review today saying the same thing, that it really was not as hard as some people were making it out to be.

A good example is the options for switching back and for between the Metro interface and the standard, Windows desktop (which, despite complaints by some critics, is easy to access and very similar to the Windows 7 desktop).

There are three ways to get from Metro to Windows Explorer. You can toggle back and forth with the Windows key, move the cursor to the bottom left of the display and click, or tap the Live Tile labeled "Desktop." Even when using the XPS 12 in clamshell mode, I invariably chose the latter. It just seemed more intuitive.
But if I want to work in the desktop, of what advantage is Metro, specifically, and Windows 8, generally?

Unlike an earlier poster, I don't use my computers for web-surfing. I have little to no interest in social networking apps. I do a fair bit of digital photography, but I don't take snapshots -- I work on my pictures in Photoshop. Why would I want to upgrade to Win8? What does it offer me that Win7 doesn't?
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 1:58 pm
  #41  
 
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I think change is good and Microsoft is the only company capable of doing it in the PC space.

I'd love to give the tablet a go, but having just got a nexus 7 (which is kinda awesome), it will be a while before I need another

The future of Microsoft is secure and I can't wait to see how they use Skype in the next couple of years.
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 2:01 pm
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by PTravel
But if I want to work in the desktop, of what advantage is Metro, specifically, and Windows 8, generally?

Unlike an earlier poster, I don't use my computers for web-surfing. I have little to no interest in social networking apps. I do a fair bit of digital photography, but I don't take snapshots -- I work on my pictures in Photoshop. Why would I want to upgrade to Win8? What does it offer me that Win7 doesn't?
Frankly if Windows 7 is working well for you, then there is little to no reason to change. In my case changing from a Vista machine with problems was definitely worthwhile.
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 5:50 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by glennaa11
Frankly if Windows 7 is working well for you, then there is little to no reason to change.
Which has been true since Windows XP. I still don't understand the obsession with Operating Systems. I have a computer to do stuff, not run an OS.
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 10:30 pm
  #44  
 
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Been using my new surface all day, now it all makes sense. A joy to use

And despite my location, I do not work for Microsoft or an affiliate
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Old Oct 26, 2012, 11:22 pm
  #45  
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I finally got W8 to install on my laptop. By finally I carefully backed up everything just in case it all went kablooey (it did not). Very nice tiled screen. Few things to point out.

Desktop - You can get to it by pressing the desktop button. It loads the desktop.
Multiple applications running at once - you can do this too. If you open an app it will take you to the desktop as well.
The Control Panel, two clicks, really. go to the upper right corner, slide down to the gear, click it then click "Change PC settings"

I might miss my start button, but this seems just as easy so far to use. The initial interface is well polished, and it hasn't decreased performance of my computer at all. I'll see how it all goes after a week, but so far no complaints.
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