A pilot properly filed every flight plan, advance notice of arrival and eAPIS, received his exit visae, and was ready for engine start to depart for his vacation home in Baja, when a team of squad cars with lights blazing arrived, Long Beach Police, US CBP agents, according to the pilot surrounded the airplane, and lowered automatic weapons and ordered them from the aircraft at gunpoint with their hands up felony style. They then proceeded to search the aircraft and released the pilot and his passengers to proceed on their way.
We discussed this pretty extensively at the time in another thread. Those were the automatic weapons that the CBP officers don't even have, right? I think there was a lot more to that story than just the pilot's version.
We discussed this pretty extensively at the time in another thread. Those were the automatic weapons that the CBP officers don't even have, right? I think there was a lot more to that story than just the pilot's version.
Except for a couple of things.
Customs admitted that they had done it. They stated they did not have automatic weapons. They also stated that they had requested and commanded the local police to accompany them. While it is unclear what weapons were used by local police, it is clear from both the pilot's report and the local customs agents and later the customs spokesman, that the event happened, and it happened largely as the pilot says it did.
What the underlying reasons might have been are, of course secret, as are the rules. And Janet Napolitano has stated that she intends to hit the boaters next. And this is the crux of the problems we are facing. I apologize that this was discussed elsewhere, as I am relative new to this board.
Was the domestic flight (south Tx to Long Beach) where CBP did a very similar but slightly more restrained interrogation discussed as well? In this one, as I recall, they had weapons at the ready, but not drawn and aimed, as in the other case.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greentips
<SNIP> However, Janet Napoleon has stated, private aircraft owners are upset, just wait till the boat owners find out what we need to do. TSA and CBP work for the same bosses.
What does the TSA have in store for boat owners? Outside of the infamous mule skinner story, I’ve not heard anything.
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"I met with the rail carriers yesterday," the secretary added, noting that surface transit problems, which are most often local issues, can often be trickier than aviation security matters, which typically are national issues.
In the aviation sector, she said DHS is in the midst of issuing a new set of security regulations that will be applied to the "general aviation" community (principally executive jets, business aircraft and small private planes.)
Following the public portion of the luncheon, I greeted Napolitano and mentioned that I'd been at a public hearing a few months ago on TSA's proposed regulations for general aviation and was stunned to watch speaker after speaker stand up and vehemently condemn those regulations.
"Yes, we're talking with the general aviation people," Napolitano told me. "But if you think they're angry, you should see the small boating community! They're even angrier." (It turns out DHS is working on a new set of security regulations for small water craft as well.)
So, in answer to your question, I don't know and they ain't sayin' yet.
<SNIP> "Yes, we're talking with the general aviation people," Napolitano told me. "But if you think they're angry, you should see the small boating community! They're even angrier." (It turns out DHS is working on a new set of security regulations for small water craft as well.)
A member of the House mentioned something about this last month right after the virtual strip search machine vote. I’ve tried hunting down some more details on that via some boating chatboards, but I couldn’t find anything.
If anyone could provide some direction to this I would appreciate it.
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It is clearly getting worse. I've had a couple of comical run ins, nothing serious. My favorite was when I moved to Michigan from New Mexico and had NM plates on the car. Went to Canada for dinner with friends and on my return, the CPB guy asked the usual questions, glanced at my US PP and then asked me why I was driving a Mexican car. Huh? We went round and round about it until I told him to take a good look at the New Mexico USA on the bottom of the tag. I'm not sure he figured it out but he let me go.
Not really on topic, but you really should submit this to the "New Mexico Magazine" "One of the 50 Is Missing" column. They would love it.
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This would be more along the lines of "Your village called, they want their idiot back."
Alternately you could ask the CPB "sooper-genius" what grade he got in geography.
naaa naaa naaa naaa. When you have a wasp trying to get into your soft drink, you gently brush it aside and ignore it. Insects are not particularly thoughtful, but they are wired to attack if they feel threatened.
This would be more along the lines of "Your village called, they want their idiot back."
Alternately you could ask the CPB "sooper-genius" what grade he got in geography.
I take it you haven't read "One of the 50 Is Missing"? It is hilarious!
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It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. Declaration of Arbroath, 1320
naaa naaa naaa naaa. When you have a wasp trying to get into your soft drink, you gently brush it aside and ignore it. Insects are not particularly thoughtful, but they are wired to attack if they feel threatened.
On the contrary, I want something like this escalated to supervisory and beyond. Someone who failed (or didn't take) US Geography does not belong in government service, period, end of discussion.
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We discussed this pretty extensively at the time in another thread. Those were the automatic weapons that the CBP officers don't even have, right? I think there was a lot more to that story than just the pilot's version.
Deeg,
I'm not sure if you saw this link, but it is a copy of an open letter written by Jack McCormick, a respected businessman and advocate of general aviation -- in particular, he spends much of his time negotiating and consulting on regulations related to air travel between the US and Mexico. Jack addressed a number of officials at both DHS and CBP. The first part includes excerpts from numerous pilots, which are detailed in whole at the end of the letter.
As a pilot, this chaps my hide. There is a growing number of complaints with too many pilots willing to stand up and publish their names, witnesses, and details, for these to be fabricated. They aren't "hide behind a screen name" fallacies. And regarding the officials' weapons, I'm sure much of the population couldn't reliably distinguish between an automatic and a semi-automatic assault weapon, especially under the circumstances.
One notch at a time, we are assumed by our very own government to be criminals first, until we can prove otherwise.
Thanks. I had not seen that. I will read through it tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoop-de-doo
And regarding the officials' weapons, I'm sure much of the population couldn't reliably distinguish between an automatic and a semi-automatic assault weapon, especially under the circumstances.
I wasn't splitting hairs over automatic vs. semi-automatic. CBP officers don't have any type of "assault weapon" or rifle. Nothing that even looks like one.
Thanks. I had not seen that. I will read through it tomorrow.
I wasn't splitting hairs over automatic vs. semi-automatic. CBP officers don't have any type of "assault weapon" or rifle. Nothing that even looks like one.
Umm, do we have any CBP officers on the forum?
I'm not knocking them for it, since they have some tough territory to cover, but word on the street is that CBP is allowed to carry a little more than that.
Quote:
When you begin firearms training at the Academy, you’ll be assigned your very own H&K P2000 in .40cal. You’ll shoot that pistol throughout the Academy and when you graduate, it will be issued to you. You aren’t allowed to modify the pistol in any way, nor are you allowed go carry your own personal weapon. A lot of people seem to have issues with this. That’s the way it is, you’ll have to deal with it. All stations have long arms available for issue. The policy on their issuance varies widely from station to station. You’ll find out when you get there. The long arms used by the Patrol are the M4 carbine in various models, Scattergun Technologies 12 ga. Shotguns, and at some stations, UMP-40 sub machine guns. Other equipment is available for issue as well, GPS, Night Vision, etc. Again, this will vary depending on what Station you’re assigned to. link
Border Patrol Agents are issued the H&K P2000 double action pistol in .40 S&W. It can contain as many as 13 rounds of ammunition (12 in the magazine and one in the chamber).
Like other law enforcement agencies, the Remington 870 is the standard shotgun.
Border Patrol Agents also commonly carry the M4 Carbine and the H&K UMP 40 cal. submachine gun.
CALEXICO – Surveillance video of a deadly shooting last month of a would-be illegal migrant by a Border Patrol agent is prompting calls by the Mexican government for an investigation, although it shows the agent apparently firing in self-defense.
A Border Patrol video of that incident, derived from those surveillance images and originally meant as an internal report to Border Patrol headquarters in Washington, has since been leaked onto the Internet.
Ramiro Gamez Acosta, 20, was shot once in the chest by an agent armed with an M-4 carbine last March 26. He died within minutes. video
I'm not knocking them for it, since they have some tough territory to cover, but word on the street is that CBP is allowed to carry a little more than that.
I was one for quite some time before moving elsewhere in federal LE. I still maintain contact with CBP officers regularly.
You have confused the positions of CBP Officer (CBPO) and Border Patrol Agent (BPA). Common mistake. While both work for the CBP agency, the former works official ports of entry (anywhere people are allowed to cross the border) and the latter works the space between the ports looking for people sneaking across. The former wears blue, the latter wears green. BPA's are indeed issued long guns. CBPO's are not.
And I read through that letter. The other pilots really seemed to be complaining about the search more than anything else. There weren't drawn weapons in any of the other stories told. (Although several mentioned "at the ready", whatever that means.)
No, the term is "mere suspicion." "Reasonable suspicion" is something else. Reasonable suspicion is not probable cause, and mere suspicion is not reasonable suspicion. They are all different gradiants.
And it's mere suspicion of a crime, Top Tier.
Who can explain to me how "mere suspicion" differs from a blanket license to harrass anybody and how it is not a racial/ethnic profiling?
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