Paolo01

Returning from JAX to ORD on November 4th. A very vociferous woman and her friend make their way through security to the ID checker. I had been observing them for a while because they were right in front of me and their carry ons just looked like they were screaming to be hand checked. (Juice, soda, cell phone with chargers, knitting items…)I was trying to make my strategy for going to another X-ray machine. The TSA employee asks for boarding pass and ID and woman number one says she did not bring her drivers license. The TSA employee says that she can use other state issued ID and the woman just looks at her with a puzzled look. TSA employee says, "Do you have your passport, or any other state or federally issued ID?" Woman says no, but her friend can vouch for her. TSA agent just looks up from the BP and says that she will have to produce an ID. Woman is stunned and asks how long has it been required to have a drivers license to fly a plane. She is the passenger and not the pilot. At that point another TSA agent come over and pulls the two women to the side and I put my BP and ID on the little screening table. I asked it it was unusual that people still did not know about the ID to fly requirement, and she just laughed and said that it happens occasionally still.

I can understand somebody being shocked when their bottle of water they just purchased is confiscated, but I am still amazed at the number of times I run into completely befuddled travelers.

studentff

Until June 21 of this year, there was no requirement to show ID at the airport. You could blatantly and willfully refuse to show ID, receive a secondary screening, and be on your way.

So I personally don't find it that surprising. Particularly among people who haven't flown for a while, the ID that the USA has turned into a papers-please society where you have to present your documents to a government agent to request permission for domestic travel is quite foreign.

The post June 21 rule (http://www.tsa.gov/press/happenings/...uirements.shtm) is still fairly new and to my knowledge has not been tested in court. IMO it is on pretty shaky grounds given the Gilmore ruling, given that it gives residents of AK and HI no means to petition the federal government without presenting travel papers, and given that it impedes free expression by discriminating between those who "willfully refuse" to show ID and those who just forgot ID.

Wally Bird

Yes, completely befuddled because the 'internal passport' requirement has been slipped in beneath the Law and contrary to (formerly) accepted Constitutional interpretation. Not everyone pays close attention to the machinations of the DHS/TSA, some continue to rely on common sense. Which sadly is no longer sufficient.

Paolo01

I got you. You are missing my point though. This woman was not somebody trying to make a political point or get arrested with the hope to sue TSA. She was not a law student or ACLU rep trying to point out the fallacies of the system. She was a woman, who wanted to get on a flight that had no idea that there was a requirement to have some sort of identification. That I find surprising. No I have seen all of the "sticker" protests and what not and I may silently applaud somebody's effort to retain their limited privacy today, but I think it is hilarious that there are still people who think that you walk from the ticket counter to the runway and climb the steps onto the big airplane.

A couple of months ago I saw a woman who was irate that her paring knife was confiscated. She was a perfectly safe woman, no chance of being a terrorist, but she had a paring knife she used to peel fruit in her bag. She was shocked when she was singled out and the knife removed. She was not a law student trying to make a point, she was just a befuddled passenger that had no idea that this was 2008 and not 1988.

ESpen36

But even before June 21, didn't all ticket agents require domestic passengers to show some form of ID prior to issuing boarding passes? I've always been asked to show ID when checking in at the ticket counter. AA's policy, not the government's policy.

(Clearly, easy to bypass by checking in online, or by using a kiosk and swiping a credit card or punching in the record locator.)

studentff

Even assuming she wasn't trying to make a point, and even assuming she's flown some (but not a lot) in the last decade, she could have gotten by without ID. If you're someone who flies 2-3 times every five years and forgets to or chooses not to carry ID now and then, you probably won't even remember the secondary screening you got last time you flew, or the fact that the airline checkin agent asked to see your credit card because you didn't have photo ID. And there's no way you'd have noticed the June 21 rule from TSA. People just don't pay attention to those sorts of things, particularly if they don't matter to them very often.

Similar case: in (approximately) the upper half of the lower-48, it snows pretty much every year. But every year, people seem to forget how to drive in the snow, there are more accidents after the first snowstorm than any other time, etc. Every year, the media and government issue releases to "teach" people how to drive in winter. If people who drive every day can't remember the details of how to drive in their home town 12 months ago, you can't expect them to remember to bring their internal passport/papers to the airport.

studentff

Not very strictly enforced and could usually be satisfied by presenting a credit card, Costco/Sams card, library card, etc. Sure, they ask, but the penalties for not having Proper Government-Issued Photo ID weren't very memorable.

SgtScott31

I like the one's who present the parolee or inmate ID card.

Paolo01

Ok, maybe I did not know what I was stepping into posting for the first time in this forum. Well maybe once a long time ago, but I cannot remember. I was not trying to make a political statement or say that there are not blaring civil liberty issues etc. I travel A LOT. Not as much as some here, but more than a few as well. I don't like the screening and I certainly do not like its inconsistencies. I think it is hilarious that I have to take my shoes off in the US, but not in Europe. I think it is crazy that the baggage screening in Germany makes me remove the batteries from my Mach 3 shaver. I think it is criminal that the screener in Bishkek takes all of my spare batteries from me. I think that it is laughable that in Italy I can get on an airplane without EVER showing even a passport and fly all the way to the US without ever being checked. They claim that somebody else in the EU must have already screened me.

So I get all of the heartburn with terrible rules and even spottier equal application. My heart goes out every time I see a young mother have to pull sleeping twins out of a stroller and have them patted down.

The only point I was trying to make was that, all of this to the side, I am shocked that there are people that do not know that you need to prove who you are to fly. That is it. No comment about how the ID could be fake or some sort of real ID political statement. I was just surprised that a lady came to the airport and was then shocked at being asked for ID.

Now if you want to start a thread about why I can fly into and out of Italy without ever presenting a passport, I'll chime in on that thread as well

pmocek

But you do not need to prove who you are in order to fly. I'm not surprised that you and others incorrectly think that this is a requirement, as the TSA goes out of its way to misinform people.

FT Guest xyzpdq

Sorry - but that is too tempting, so I'll answer that very briefly:
It is Italy - and here anything goes, especially if you got connections and money.

oneofthosepeopleyouloveto hate

Just the other day, I had a lovely young lady with a very sharp knife with a 4-1/2" blade. She had taken it to school to cut a cake, and left it in her backpack. Whoops!

It happens.

fbtr

If you stop for a second and think about it, and not swallow government propaganda - there should be no need to prove who you are when you fly. I can get on a bus, a train, walk, ride a bicycle, and I can get to where I want to go (domestically), without proving who I am. Why should planes be different? You don't get any real 'security' by knowing that everyone on your flight is likely to be a 'safe' person because their names were screened by some database. When I go on a plane, I want to know I'm safe by knowing that security doesn't allow dangerous items through - I don't care what the name of the person sitting next to me is. If there somehow was some new 'terrorist' attempt, I'm pretty sure that a number of guys would stand up and beat the crap out of would-be terrorists.. and besides, cockpit doors are locked nowadays. Then, even if everyone on my flight is considered 'safe' because they're not on some terrorist database - it doesn't stop anyone, while I'm sleeping, to strangle me to death using a cable, or turning any number of things you can find on a plane into weapons.

What amazes me is that nowadays - perhaps due to the 9/11 debacle or perhaps due to brainwashing by mainstream news - many people seem to think and accept that airports and airplanes are somehow 'special' places where common sense no longer applies.

As for Italy - I find your claim hard to believe. Every time I've flown out from Italy (FCO) I had my passport checked about 10 feet after the security checkpoint, with the only exception being to Schengen-area countries of course. Are you saying you can walk by passport control without showing your passport? Do elaborate...

doober

Paolo01, I'm going to assume that you are well aware of the phrase "everybody knows." We all make assumptions that because we know something, we've read about it in the newspapers, on the internet and heard about it on television, that "everybody knows" the same things we know.

It just is not the case.

Paolo01

We will have to agree to disagree on this case. I have ZERO problem with the government wanting to know who is flying. And right now it is the law. If that law is changed then we can adjust back to blissful ignorance.

And if you have not seen the debacle of entering into or out of Italy, then you do not travel there that often or utilize airports outside of FCO, though it was FCO's I utilized last and witnessed first hand. ZERO passport checks into or leaving the country. I joked about it at dinner with my friend who entered through NAP and he had the same experience that day. This was not our first time experiencing this. Italy seems to have subscribed to your "It does not really matter who flies" theory. from what I have been able to tell. Their security otherwise is comparable as far as X-Rays, screeners and such. Just no ID check.