NOOD warninng: preview in RDU
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: LAS
Posts: 1,279
NOOD warninng: preview in RDU
I'll miss the NOOD, so I chose to stand up for my rights today in RDU. Here's the summary. I'm providing this in a separate thread not because the events of today were remarkable, but as a warning notice to all NOOD participants (skip to the end for that).
Things started pretty normal with an opt out. Intead of a secondary, they immediately insisted on a resolution frisk and started yelling REFUSAL. I was told I had to comply (without any mention of what the "or else" would be. The clerks were pleasant, but had to be reminded to change gloves.
Here's where it got interesting. I asked if I could have a witness. I was told there was one (the other TSA guy in the room). I asked specifically, "Am I permitted to have my own witness. I was told no. After a standard groping, I exited the private room. At that point, The clerk demanded I provide my boarding pass and ID. I very politely asked why. Instead of answering, the clerk called a supervisor. When she arrived, the clerk said "He is refusing to comply." Knowing where that was going, I immediately responded, that I was not refusing annoying, I simply asked a question. The supervisor said "We need the data for our records." I again asked why. She asked if I wanted to fly today.
Here's where it gets more interesting. I replied that didn't answer my question. At this point, she summoned an LEO. Same story offered by the TSA (I wasn't complying). I showed my ID at that point and repeated my question. They wrote down my name and rudely walked away. I walked up to the supervisor's station to asked for a complaint form and asked for her name. She gave it. I asked for the name of the person that refused to allow me a witness. She said "I can't give you that information, you will have to get it yourself." I went to find the clerk that screened me, and got his name without issue. A few seconds later, another supervisor confronted me, saying that I do not need to get names of the officers. I asked for his name, and wouldn't you know it, the LEO shows up again. I politely asked the LEO if he would stand by me while I asked my witness question again. He cautioned that "You are about to be escorted out of the airport." I asked why and he said "I was pushing it and I have to escort you out if the TSA asks, there is nothing I can do."
I asked both the supervisor's and the clerk that screened me the witness question again. They said they do provide a witness and pointed at the other TSA clerk the did that. I asked if I had the right to have my own witness. They said it had to be the same sex. I asked specifically, "I asked for a witness and was told that in no uncertain terms that I could not have one." the response was not surprising. "Sir, you are causing a disturbance, you either need to leave or you will be escorted out." Not wanting to ruin the vacation of my witness, I left.
Here's the warning, confirmed by TSA witness I had (while the screener was checking glove for explosives):
TSA will consider any non-compliance, including questions to be interfering with the process. Being escorted out of the airport (or worse) will be threatened early and often. They know NOOD is coming and are preparing to react like any good police state would with threats and intimidation.
Things started pretty normal with an opt out. Intead of a secondary, they immediately insisted on a resolution frisk and started yelling REFUSAL. I was told I had to comply (without any mention of what the "or else" would be. The clerks were pleasant, but had to be reminded to change gloves.
Here's where it got interesting. I asked if I could have a witness. I was told there was one (the other TSA guy in the room). I asked specifically, "Am I permitted to have my own witness. I was told no. After a standard groping, I exited the private room. At that point, The clerk demanded I provide my boarding pass and ID. I very politely asked why. Instead of answering, the clerk called a supervisor. When she arrived, the clerk said "He is refusing to comply." Knowing where that was going, I immediately responded, that I was not refusing annoying, I simply asked a question. The supervisor said "We need the data for our records." I again asked why. She asked if I wanted to fly today.
Here's where it gets more interesting. I replied that didn't answer my question. At this point, she summoned an LEO. Same story offered by the TSA (I wasn't complying). I showed my ID at that point and repeated my question. They wrote down my name and rudely walked away. I walked up to the supervisor's station to asked for a complaint form and asked for her name. She gave it. I asked for the name of the person that refused to allow me a witness. She said "I can't give you that information, you will have to get it yourself." I went to find the clerk that screened me, and got his name without issue. A few seconds later, another supervisor confronted me, saying that I do not need to get names of the officers. I asked for his name, and wouldn't you know it, the LEO shows up again. I politely asked the LEO if he would stand by me while I asked my witness question again. He cautioned that "You are about to be escorted out of the airport." I asked why and he said "I was pushing it and I have to escort you out if the TSA asks, there is nothing I can do."
I asked both the supervisor's and the clerk that screened me the witness question again. They said they do provide a witness and pointed at the other TSA clerk the did that. I asked if I had the right to have my own witness. They said it had to be the same sex. I asked specifically, "I asked for a witness and was told that in no uncertain terms that I could not have one." the response was not surprising. "Sir, you are causing a disturbance, you either need to leave or you will be escorted out." Not wanting to ruin the vacation of my witness, I left.
Here's the warning, confirmed by TSA witness I had (while the screener was checking glove for explosives):
TSA will consider any non-compliance, including questions to be interfering with the process. Being escorted out of the airport (or worse) will be threatened early and often. They know NOOD is coming and are preparing to react like any good police state would with threats and intimidation.
Last edited by ScatterX; Nov 22, 2010 at 6:35 am
#2
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 190
"Am I permitted to have my own witness. I was told no. "
But thats not what the nice man on TV said.
The TSA agent said this?
More people need to learn how to record audio, audio of that statement would be damning.
But thats not what the nice man on TV said.
TSA will consider any non-compliance, including questions to be interfering with the process. Being escorted out of the airport (or worse) will be threatened early and often.
More people need to learn how to record audio, audio of that statement would be damning.
Last edited by AmericanSecurityTheater; Nov 22, 2010 at 6:37 am
#3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Programs: Delta, Marriott
Posts: 37
The more they "crack down" in that fashion the worse it's going to be for them publicity-wise, especially this week with infrequent flyers.
I do have to say I'm really glad they don't give the TSOs guns. I highly doubt the average TSO is happy with this policy, and the longer the TSA makes them feel up passenger's groins and thus deal with passenger's reactions to being groped, the more likely one of them would be to crack up instead of just crack down.
I do have to say I'm really glad they don't give the TSOs guns. I highly doubt the average TSO is happy with this policy, and the longer the TSA makes them feel up passenger's groins and thus deal with passenger's reactions to being groped, the more likely one of them would be to crack up instead of just crack down.
#4
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 190
I do have to say I'm really glad they don't give the TSOs guns. I highly doubt the average TSO is happy with this policy, and the longer the TSA makes them feel up passenger's groins and thus deal with passenger's reactions to being groped, the more likely one of them would be to crack up instead of just crack down.
They did consider issuing shock bracelets though.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...h-blogosphere/
I guess they weren't able to funnel enough money to Chertoff with that scheme, so body scanners it is.
Maybe we can get the fancy compliance bracelets next christmas.
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: LAS
Posts: 1,279
Sorry for the second post, but editing on the iPad is a pain.
NOTES:
I was not allowed to be screened in public. The clerk witness implied to me that all opt outs are going to be handled with a resolution pat down versus a secondary. Sure seemed punitive to me, but the point is this is a deliberate way to keep the opt out groping out of view.
The ability to have a witness will be skirted. This is especially concerning if the previous point is true.
The LEO made it clear, any disruption was going to be dealt with severely. Asking questions is disruptive. Anything that requires additional time for the TSOs will be considered disruptive.
They will insist on getting you name. Im so sure they will only use it for good purposes.
My witness was threatened for taking pictures. I'll bet that photos will be prohibited by any means necessary on NOOD.
Good luck and my sincerest thanks to all that fight back on NOOD!!!
NOTES:
I was not allowed to be screened in public. The clerk witness implied to me that all opt outs are going to be handled with a resolution pat down versus a secondary. Sure seemed punitive to me, but the point is this is a deliberate way to keep the opt out groping out of view.
The ability to have a witness will be skirted. This is especially concerning if the previous point is true.
The LEO made it clear, any disruption was going to be dealt with severely. Asking questions is disruptive. Anything that requires additional time for the TSOs will be considered disruptive.
They will insist on getting you name. Im so sure they will only use it for good purposes.
My witness was threatened for taking pictures. I'll bet that photos will be prohibited by any means necessary on NOOD.
Good luck and my sincerest thanks to all that fight back on NOOD!!!
#6
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 65
#7
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
I'll miss the NOOD, so I chose to stand up for my rights today in RDU. Here's the summary. I'm providing this in a separate thread not because the events of today were remarkable, but as a warning notice to all NOOD participants (skip to the end for that).
Things started pretty normal with an opt out. Intead of a secondary, they immediately insisted on a resolution frisk and started yelling REFUSAL. I was told I had to comply (without any mention of what the "or else" would be. The clerks were pleasant, but had to be reminded to change gloves.
Here's where it got interesting. I asked if I could have a witness. I was told there was one (the other TSA guy in the room). I asked specifically, "Am I permitted to have my own witness. I was told no. After a standard groping, I exited the private room. At that point, The clerk demanded I provide my boarding pass and ID. I very politely asked why. Instead of answering, the clerk called a supervisor. When she arrived, the clerk said "He is refusing to comply." Knowing where that was going, I immediately responded, that I was not refusing annoying, I simply asked a question. The supervisor said "We need the data for our records." I again asked why. She asked if I wanted to fly today.
Here's where it gets more interesting. I replied that didn't answer my question. At this point, she summoned an LEO. Same story offered by the TSA (I wasn't complying). I showed my ID at that point and repeated my question. They wrote down my name and rudely walked away. I walked up to the supervisor's station to asked for a complaint form and asked for her name. She gave it. I asked for the name of the person that refused to allow me a witness. She said "I can't give you that information, you will have to get it yourself." I went to find the clerk that screened me, and got his name without issue. A few seconds later, another supervisor confronted me, saying that I do not need to get names of the officers. I asked for his name, and wouldn't you know it, the LEO shows up again. I politely asked the LEO if he would stand by me while I asked my witness question again. He cautioned that "You are about to be escorted out of the airport." I asked why and he said "I was pushing it and I have to escort you out if the TSA asks, there is nothing I can do."
I asked both the supervisor's and the clerk that screened me the witness question again. They said they do provide a witness and pointed at the other TSA clerk the did that. I asked if I had the right to have my own witness. They said it had to be the same sex. I asked specifically, "I asked for a witness and was told that in no uncertain terms that I could not have one." the response was not surprising. "Sir, you are causing a disturbance, you either need to leave or you will be escorted out." Not wanting to ruin the vacation of my witness, I left.
Here's the warning, confirmed by TSA witness I had (while the screener was checking glove for explosives):
TSA will consider any non-compliance, including questions to be interfering with the process. Being escorted out of the airport (or worse) will be threatened early and often. They know NOOD is coming and are preparing to react like any good police state would with threats and intimidation.
Things started pretty normal with an opt out. Intead of a secondary, they immediately insisted on a resolution frisk and started yelling REFUSAL. I was told I had to comply (without any mention of what the "or else" would be. The clerks were pleasant, but had to be reminded to change gloves.
Here's where it got interesting. I asked if I could have a witness. I was told there was one (the other TSA guy in the room). I asked specifically, "Am I permitted to have my own witness. I was told no. After a standard groping, I exited the private room. At that point, The clerk demanded I provide my boarding pass and ID. I very politely asked why. Instead of answering, the clerk called a supervisor. When she arrived, the clerk said "He is refusing to comply." Knowing where that was going, I immediately responded, that I was not refusing annoying, I simply asked a question. The supervisor said "We need the data for our records." I again asked why. She asked if I wanted to fly today.
Here's where it gets more interesting. I replied that didn't answer my question. At this point, she summoned an LEO. Same story offered by the TSA (I wasn't complying). I showed my ID at that point and repeated my question. They wrote down my name and rudely walked away. I walked up to the supervisor's station to asked for a complaint form and asked for her name. She gave it. I asked for the name of the person that refused to allow me a witness. She said "I can't give you that information, you will have to get it yourself." I went to find the clerk that screened me, and got his name without issue. A few seconds later, another supervisor confronted me, saying that I do not need to get names of the officers. I asked for his name, and wouldn't you know it, the LEO shows up again. I politely asked the LEO if he would stand by me while I asked my witness question again. He cautioned that "You are about to be escorted out of the airport." I asked why and he said "I was pushing it and I have to escort you out if the TSA asks, there is nothing I can do."
I asked both the supervisor's and the clerk that screened me the witness question again. They said they do provide a witness and pointed at the other TSA clerk the did that. I asked if I had the right to have my own witness. They said it had to be the same sex. I asked specifically, "I asked for a witness and was told that in no uncertain terms that I could not have one." the response was not surprising. "Sir, you are causing a disturbance, you either need to leave or you will be escorted out." Not wanting to ruin the vacation of my witness, I left.
Here's the warning, confirmed by TSA witness I had (while the screener was checking glove for explosives):
TSA will consider any non-compliance, including questions to be interfering with the process. Being escorted out of the airport (or worse) will be threatened early and often. They know NOOD is coming and are preparing to react like any good police state would with threats and intimidation.
#8
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 117
So it appears that they are going to conduct all pat downs in private - with no witnesses and no cameras.
In other words - they have escalated the fight. Rather than conduct their screenings in the open, they've been told to stay off the news, and stay off youtube.
So are they going to take 16 year old girls into a private room with no witnesses?
12 year old boys to be groped by grown men in private?
In other words - they have escalated the fight. Rather than conduct their screenings in the open, they've been told to stay off the news, and stay off youtube.
So are they going to take 16 year old girls into a private room with no witnesses?
12 year old boys to be groped by grown men in private?
#9
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 190
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fpOALc2RbI
This needs to go viral as well, and be backed up before it gets memory holed
This needs to go viral as well, and be backed up before it gets memory holed
#10
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: RDU
Programs: OnePass
Posts: 772
Oh lord - RDU is currently my home airport.
I'm glad my flight on Wednesday is in Terminal 1, which doesn't have NoS. If I wasn't working on tight time margins to begin with I'd wander over to Terminal 2 to record the fun.
That and Raleigh cops are jerks. I could have told you that.
I'm glad my flight on Wednesday is in Terminal 1, which doesn't have NoS. If I wasn't working on tight time margins to begin with I'd wander over to Terminal 2 to record the fun.
That and Raleigh cops are jerks. I could have told you that.
#11
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,483
I gather you were subjected to a private screening. Did you volunteer for the private screening or were you ordered to enter the room?
#12
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 219
Please fill out the form at EPIC/ACLU, and file a complaint with the TSA.
I'd love to see Blogdad Bob respond to this, but of course since it was done in private there were no cameras, and therefore the TSOs acted perfectly in accordance with regulations, as they always, always do.
I'd love to see Blogdad Bob respond to this, but of course since it was done in private there were no cameras, and therefore the TSOs acted perfectly in accordance with regulations, as they always, always do.
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: LAS
Posts: 1,279
Agreed on the recording part. My witness was trying to video/photograph this, but was confronted immediately. The thousands standing around are now watching for the you-tubers instead of terrorists. They said RDU is a "private area" and no photos are allowed. Anybody know if this is Bravo Sierra or not.
I would love to figure out how to covertly voice record these things. My blackberry voice recorder would have gotten me arrested, I think.