Opt-out minors and enhanced patdowns -- looking for facts
#1
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Opt-out minors and enhanced patdowns -- looking for facts
Sorry if this has been answered in another thread, but...
Can anybody tell us whether the enhanced patdown is DEFINITELY being performed on minors whose parents opt them out?
Spent an inordinate amount of time reading through literally thousands of NoS-related posts. Found lots of FTers giving advice and/or discussing how they would handle it IF they were faced with a choice between radiation and patdown, but saw nothing stating definitively that TSA is or is not, for a fact, performing the enhanced patdowns on minors. [again, no desire to be redundant, so apologies if we simply missed the posts]
We have determined that we may not be able to avoid making this choice during some upcoming domestic flights with one of our 15-year-old daughters. Certainly, avoiding exposure to radiation (not to mention the resultant porn) is an extraordinarily high priority for us. However, the patdown is simply not an option if it will be "enhanced" (i.e., involving her chest, butt or anywhere too close to the groin region).
Seeking FTers' recent real-life personal experiences and/or first-hand observations.
Thanks!
Can anybody tell us whether the enhanced patdown is DEFINITELY being performed on minors whose parents opt them out?
Spent an inordinate amount of time reading through literally thousands of NoS-related posts. Found lots of FTers giving advice and/or discussing how they would handle it IF they were faced with a choice between radiation and patdown, but saw nothing stating definitively that TSA is or is not, for a fact, performing the enhanced patdowns on minors. [again, no desire to be redundant, so apologies if we simply missed the posts]
We have determined that we may not be able to avoid making this choice during some upcoming domestic flights with one of our 15-year-old daughters. Certainly, avoiding exposure to radiation (not to mention the resultant porn) is an extraordinarily high priority for us. However, the patdown is simply not an option if it will be "enhanced" (i.e., involving her chest, butt or anywhere too close to the groin region).
Seeking FTers' recent real-life personal experiences and/or first-hand observations.
Thanks!
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 27,997
Not personal experiece. On the TSA blog it was stated by the TSA Blogger Bob burns that if a parent Opts Out a minor that they will get the pat down.
The "Enhanced Pat Down" will be invasive.
So you have a choice, have your children viewed naked or felt up by TSA perverts.
Say Thanks to DHS/TSA.
John Pistole is head of TSA now, why don't you send him your thanks.
The "Enhanced Pat Down" will be invasive.
So you have a choice, have your children viewed naked or felt up by TSA perverts.
Say Thanks to DHS/TSA.
John Pistole is head of TSA now, why don't you send him your thanks.
#3
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,972
A pat-down. There are many more than just one. And there's a great deal of confusion of which one occurs when.
Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; Nov 5, 2010 at 7:07 pm Reason: merge consecutive posts
#4
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I have the same questions.
I have one final trip into the US (that was booked a year and a half ago) but it includes my teenaged children. I have started talking to them about NoS, what the images may be, what the options are should they be selected, what the enhanced pat-down experience is like (been through it 3 out of 4 of my last flights into the US), and trying to get them educated and involved in the decision. It is a vacation that they have very much been looking forward to, so if/when the time comes we need to know what we are prepared to do - and I think they are old enough to be involved in making that decision.
I haven't seen anywhere that minors are excluded from enhanced searches, but I keep hoping ...
I have one final trip into the US (that was booked a year and a half ago) but it includes my teenaged children. I have started talking to them about NoS, what the images may be, what the options are should they be selected, what the enhanced pat-down experience is like (been through it 3 out of 4 of my last flights into the US), and trying to get them educated and involved in the decision. It is a vacation that they have very much been looking forward to, so if/when the time comes we need to know what we are prepared to do - and I think they are old enough to be involved in making that decision.
I haven't seen anywhere that minors are excluded from enhanced searches, but I keep hoping ...
#5
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I have the same questions.
I have one final trip into the US (that was booked a year and a half ago) but it includes my teenaged children. I have started talking to them about NoS, what the images may be, what the options are should they be selected, what the enhanced pat-down experience is like (been through it 3 out of 4 of my last flights into the US), and trying to get them educated and involved in the decision. It is a vacation that they have very much been looking forward to, so if/when the time comes we need to know what we are prepared to do - and I think they are old enough to be involved in making that decision.
I haven't seen anywhere that minors are excluded from enhanced searches, but I keep hoping ...
I have one final trip into the US (that was booked a year and a half ago) but it includes my teenaged children. I have started talking to them about NoS, what the images may be, what the options are should they be selected, what the enhanced pat-down experience is like (been through it 3 out of 4 of my last flights into the US), and trying to get them educated and involved in the decision. It is a vacation that they have very much been looking forward to, so if/when the time comes we need to know what we are prepared to do - and I think they are old enough to be involved in making that decision.
I haven't seen anywhere that minors are excluded from enhanced searches, but I keep hoping ...
Last edited by MikeMpls; Oct 27, 2010 at 2:17 pm
#6
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Posts: 1,441
Read through the testimonials on www.thousandsstandaround.com. Unfortunately teens are not exempt from being molested by TSA.
~~
But this one does:
http://www.thousandsstandingaround.org/
#7
Original Poster
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A pat-down. There are many more than just one. And there's a great deal of confusion of which one occurs when.
FWIW, we've already decided what we'll do if we can't avoid the NoS (a decision reached with daughter's input).
Nevertheless, we'd still very much like to hear about the experiences and observations of FTers who opted out their kids, or witnessed a minor opt-out first-hand.
Last edited by aBroadAbroad; Oct 27, 2010 at 2:11 pm Reason: redundancy
#8
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Two of our FT members employed by TSA have told us that there will only be two pat downs starting with the new change. The Enhanced Pat Down which will use the front of the hand on certain areas of the body and a new as yet undefined pat down that will be used in limited situations and be more invasive that the Enhanced Pat Down.
News media have confirmed these reports in the last couple of days.
The comment by Blogger Bob about children not being exempted was made some time ago and I am not going back to look for that one statement.
#9
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In July, I was flying with my 5 year old granddaughter and her mother opted her out of the NOS at El Paso airport. They did the "normal" patdown. They ETDed her hands and it came back positive. She had just used the restroom, so it was more than likely the soap. There were 4 or 5 of them standing around trying to figure out what to do. They asked my daughter for my granddaughters belongings and my daughter said "Well, here is her Happy Meal and crayons". What a fricking joke! Then the 3 striper called someone and was totally at a loss as to what to do. He finally said to just go. The whole thing took about 30 minutes.
#10
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As a parent, I have serious concerns that such a search would be done on a 17 year old minor. The searches cross the line, she was molested for no reason.
Vote with your checkbook!^
I won't let my kids go through this. My family has quit flying until some reasonableness is restored to Amerika.
#11
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#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Too bad it would be considered a terrorist act to deliver that thanks by Sharpie-written brick through his plate-glass window...
We have TSA doing that for us and look what it gets.
#13
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A Pathetic thread on Disney (external) support board:
http://www.passporterboards.com/foru...nners-mco.html
http://www.passporterboards.com/foru...nners-mco.html
#14
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A Pathetic thread on Disney (external) support board:
http://www.passporterboards.com/foru...nners-mco.html
http://www.passporterboards.com/foru...nners-mco.html
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/reg...s#CommentsArea
#15
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Travelling to US from Canada
Just off the phone with CATSA
Underage minors are never exempt from random selection.
Should they be selected, an underage minor can choose to opt-out of the NoS
Should said minor opt-out, they will be subjected to the same pat down and process as any adult would be
Adults are permitted to accompany their minor children at all times
ps - I was told that as part of the enhanced process, CATSA has upped the "random selection" to 50%. So, you now have a 50/50 chance of random NoS or opt-out groping.
Underage minors are never exempt from random selection.
Should they be selected, an underage minor can choose to opt-out of the NoS
Should said minor opt-out, they will be subjected to the same pat down and process as any adult would be
Adults are permitted to accompany their minor children at all times
ps - I was told that as part of the enhanced process, CATSA has upped the "random selection" to 50%. So, you now have a 50/50 chance of random NoS or opt-out groping.