Even our resident attorney has some comprehension issues with it.
And that would be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSORon
Really? Prove it. Your a lawyer, it should be easy, right? Be specific, try and avoid your usual shotgun pattern answers. IOW, try and be on point.
While this wasn't directed at me, I think that my prior quote answers your inquiry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ND Sol
If the SOP said that anyone wearing such a shirt would be subjected to a secondary search, then that would be a violation of the right to free speech as it would have a chilling effect on the ability to wear such a shirt.
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I think the point is if a person wears a shirt that a person while acting in an official capacity treats that person in a manner different than someone not wearing the shirt then they have stepped over the line.
If a TSA employee sends everyone wearing the "TSA wants to see me nekkid" shirt to secondary then I think they are in the wrong. It could even be considered a form of profiling.
TSA doesn't profile does it?
Maybe slightly over the line in this case at best. Now, if they'd have bludgeoned him with the wand ......
As I said, my reaction would be security based, and has nothing to do with if I like the wording on his shirt or not. It is based on the assessment of the individuals potential to cause harm to the other passengers because of his willingness to offend individuals who have a limited form of authority.
Two responses.
1. Wouldn't someone intent upon causing harm to passengers aboard an aircraft want to avoid drawing attraction to him/herself, in order to gain unfettered access to the aircraft? In such a scenario, wouldn't such a passenger go to great lengths to avoid wearing anything remotely offensive to a screener, thereby risking a more intensive search? (In short, wouldn't someone wearing such a shirt be less likely to be a covert threat, not more likely?)
2. Often, hostile intent is aimed at individuals or individual groups. If someone approaches your checkpoint with a T-shirt that indicates a hostile attitude towards TSA, how do you know that that hostility isn't just directed at TSA, and not at fellow passengers or airline staff? I'm not sure how you can jump from "X shows hostility towards TSA" to "X will be hostile towards his/her next commercial flight".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSORon
Really? Prove it. Your a lawyer, it should be easy, right? Be specific, try and avoid your usual shotgun pattern answers. IOW, try and be on point.
I'll make you a deal:
If I prove it, will you go away?
Seriously, I'll provide you with case cites that prove that I'm right and you're wrong, but I'll only do it if you agree to stop posting on FT if I'm right.
Seriously, I'll provide you with case cites that prove that I'm right and you're wrong, but I'll only do it if you agree to stop posting on FT if I'm right.
Do we have a deal?
They can detain a college girl at gunpoint (multiple automatic assault rifles no less) for wearing a shirt with an LED and a battery on it, but they can't give a secondary to a grown man (presumably) with a picture of a naked man on his shirt and an Anti TSA slogan.
makes about as much sense as a lot of other things in the courtroom I guess
They can detain a college girl at gunpoint (multiple automatic assault rifles no less) for wearing a shirt with an LED and a battery on it, but they can't give a secondary to a grown man (presumably) with a picture of a naked man on his shirt and an Anti TSA slogan.
makes about as much sense as a lot of other things in the courtroom I guess
A 2D image and an unusual home made 3D artifice are totally different. The first is far more likely to be just a harmless opinion.
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I am a lawyer and just so you will know, damages awarded for violations of civil rights are nondischargeable in bankruptcy. You should keep that in mind.
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A 2D image and an unusual home made 3D artifice are totally different. The first is far more likely to be just a harmless opinion.
All in the eye of the beholder, I suppose, but I didnt see anything particularly threatening about her shirt. Now, I probably would feel uncomfortable (maybe even PO'ed) with a grown man with naked pictures on his shirt on my flight .... if I was flying with my children. I dont want them looking at that kind of crap.
Last edited by WalkinBackToTexas; Nov 3, 09 at 2:32 pm.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trollkiller
I added some stuff with the Arabic wording, I did some infant stuff but I have not made anything with the English translation on the back yet.
If you guys want to make your own shirts, I recommend Spreadshirt.com, it costs nothing to join and when you sell a shirt you make the commission you set. If you want to make something for just yourself set the commission to zero.
All in the eye of the beholder, I suppose, but I didnt see anything particularly threatening about her shirt. Now, I probably would feel uncomfortable (maybe even PO'ed) with a grown man with naked pictures on his shirt on my flight .... if I was flying with my children. I dont want them looking at that kind of crap .
But, but, its the same image that TSA promises to post at every machine...
You probably wouldn't be seated where you could see the shirt image, anyway.
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"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." Mark Twain
But, but, its the same image that TSA promises to post at every machine...
You probably wouldn't be seated where you could see the shirt image, anyway.
yeah, I don't like the sign, either.
sorry for getting things off track. He has every right to make a political statement. That said, if you push just right, hard, or often enough you will get a "wrong" reaction in any situation in life. A screener gave him a secondary. Maybe the shirt influenced it, maybe not. He wanted a reaction anyway and he got it. Do you make a federal case out of it and try bankrupt the TSA screener over it? I hope not.
Last edited by WalkinBackToTexas; Nov 3, 09 at 2:44 pm.
sorry for getting things off track. He has every right to make a political statement. You push just right or just hard enough and you can get a "wrong" reaction in a lot of situations. A screener gave him a secondary. Maybe the shirt influenced it, maybe not. He wanted a reaction anyway and he got it. Do you make a federal case out of it and try bankrupt the TSA screener over it? I hope not.
Point taken. However, people in uniform need to present a professional attitude, and fully abide by their oaths and regulations. Our poster may get some poor treatment, but he will probably share his observations with us.
On a side note: there was once a study done with small children in which it was found that they could recognize their parent's bodies more easily than their faces- those body images were shot from the kids eye level. Your kids might not even notice the images, if they do they might not really dwell on them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkhuggins
2. Often, hostile intent is aimed at individuals or individual groups. If someone approaches your checkpoint with a T-shirt that indicates a hostile attitude towards TSA, how do you know that that hostility isn't just directed at TSA, and not at fellow passengers or airline staff? I'm not sure how you can jump from "X shows hostility towards TSA" to "X will be hostile towards his/her next commercial flight".
Hmmm, 2 UA flights went by on Saturday without any incident or diversion. That t-shirt sure was an indicator that I was going to be hostile to UA or my fellow pax.
not directed at you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalkinBackToTexas
They can detain a college girl at gunpoint (multiple automatic assault rifles no less) for wearing a shirt with an LED and a battery on it, but they can't give a secondary to a grown man (presumably) with a picture of a naked man on his shirt and an Anti TSA slogan.
makes about as much sense as a lot of other things in the courtroom I guess
And naked woman.
The pictures came directly from TSA. If TSA has a problem with the pics, then they shouldn't be posting them at the checkpoint, nor should they using the WBI. After all, Nico himself said the pics were innocuous and that he would have no trouble sending himself, his wife, or his 5 kids thru it. So the pics on a t-shirt mustn't be bad all - a TSA spokeshole himself said so.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandBased
On a side note: there was once a study done with small children in which it was found that they could recognize their parent's bodies more easily than their faces- those body images were shot from the kids eye level. Your kids might not even notice the images, if they do they might not really dwell on them.
Oh, great, that's why my kids are always chasing after beachballs.
