Travel Insurance- Best policy for Weather delays (hurricane, cyclone, etc)
May 23, 2015, 11:47 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,548
Travel Insurance- Best policy for Weather delays (hurricane, cyclone, etc)
I am looking to insure against issues around weather- for example:
- PART of a trip is cancelled due to weather taking out a resort, or resort is closed. Pretty straightforward.-
- I miss two days at a resort due to weather preventing flights to leave where I was. There is NOT a "COMPLETE cessation of all services by carrier". Yes, flights are cancelled for over 24 hrs, but only to my destination. (ie Qantas still flies to other airports)
- I am delayed and as a result I miss an International F award. The delay reason IS a 'covered reason' As my original "Class of Fare" is first, would a policy cover purchase of an F ticket? For example:
Am I the only one that things "Class of fare" is an odd phrase and is most likely a purposeful choice?
So will they fly me home in F if my ticket is F award?
Any inputs on above? Many policies have odd language around 'hours the airline needs to be shut down to be considered a valid reason'. 6 hrs, 12...up to 48. Plus some have the 'complete cessation' BS. What does that mean? Am I being too literal?
(Some policies replace "your common carrier" with "travel services"- which is really pointless, IMO)
I am, of course, concerned with trip cancellation for all sorts of reasons- medical, accidents, a company going belly up, etc. As well as medical, evac, etc... But the whole weather aspect seems awfully variable
Thoughts/guidance?
- PART of a trip is cancelled due to weather taking out a resort, or resort is closed. Pretty straightforward.-
- I miss two days at a resort due to weather preventing flights to leave where I was. There is NOT a "COMPLETE cessation of all services by carrier". Yes, flights are cancelled for over 24 hrs, but only to my destination. (ie Qantas still flies to other airports)
- I am delayed and as a result I miss an International F award. The delay reason IS a 'covered reason' As my original "Class of Fare" is first, would a policy cover purchase of an F ticket? For example:
(Airfare limited to the cost
of one-way airfare using the same class of fare
as the original travel ticket).
of one-way airfare using the same class of fare
as the original travel ticket).
So will they fly me home in F if my ticket is F award?
Any inputs on above? Many policies have odd language around 'hours the airline needs to be shut down to be considered a valid reason'. 6 hrs, 12...up to 48. Plus some have the 'complete cessation' BS. What does that mean? Am I being too literal?
Weather which causes complete cessation of
services of Your Common Carrier for at least 24
consecutive hours.
services of Your Common Carrier for at least 24
consecutive hours.
I am, of course, concerned with trip cancellation for all sorts of reasons- medical, accidents, a company going belly up, etc. As well as medical, evac, etc... But the whole weather aspect seems awfully variable
Thoughts/guidance?
Aug 18, 2015, 6:38 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,548
well, you can see this is a dead topic....
I liked worldwide trip protector plus from insure my trip. They have an 'interrupt for any reason', which means you could avoid a hurricane/weather somewhere and not have to cancel the entire trip.
I liked worldwide trip protector plus from insure my trip. They have an 'interrupt for any reason', which means you could avoid a hurricane/weather somewhere and not have to cancel the entire trip.
Aug 19, 2015, 4:12 am
#4
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,602
Aug 28, 2015, 9:27 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,548
I guess I will post in my own thread....
One issue that has really concerned me is that many (most?) policies have language like:
Benefits will be paid, up to the Maximum Benefit Amount shown in the Confirmation of Benefits, to reimburse You for the amount of the non-refundable Prepaid Payments You paid for Travel Arrangements when You are prevented from taking Your Trip due to:
The problem is that to be reimbursed you MUST PRE-PAY the entire trip. You may think 'why should you be paid for something you didnt pre-pay?' The answer is that you may make a 100% non-refundable commitment, which isnt prepaid, but will cost you as if it were prepaid!
This is fine when the model is 'fly to miami, get on a 6 day cruise, fly home'....but many of us will fly to a location, a country, and then have 3,4 or 5 different 'arrangements'.
In particular arrangements that are say 4 or 5 days each at different hotel.
IF the hotel has a '30 day 100% cancellation penalty'- in other words, once you are inside 30 days, if you cancel or now show you WILL pay 100%. HOWEVER, that amount is still not 'pre-paid'. You will be charged on the night you no-show, or if you cancel.
It is actually quite surprising but the vast majority of policies will not cover this.
A few seem to cover this if you cancel before you leave (so called 'trip cancellation'):
Benefits will be paid, up to the Maximum Benefit Amount shown in the Confirmation of Benefits, to reimburse You for the amount of the Published Penalties and unused non-refundable Prepaid Payments You paid for Travel Arrangements when You are prevented from taking Your Trip
with a defined term of "Published Penalties". This would include that 100% cancellation penalty. But then, under the trip interruption part (so if you have to cancel hotels once the trip begins) they delete that term. They only cover prepaid amounts.
The only plan I was able to find was the American Express plan (not linked with the card, this is an additional paid plan)
FWIW
One issue that has really concerned me is that many (most?) policies have language like:
Benefits will be paid, up to the Maximum Benefit Amount shown in the Confirmation of Benefits, to reimburse You for the amount of the non-refundable Prepaid Payments You paid for Travel Arrangements when You are prevented from taking Your Trip due to:
The problem is that to be reimbursed you MUST PRE-PAY the entire trip. You may think 'why should you be paid for something you didnt pre-pay?' The answer is that you may make a 100% non-refundable commitment, which isnt prepaid, but will cost you as if it were prepaid!
This is fine when the model is 'fly to miami, get on a 6 day cruise, fly home'....but many of us will fly to a location, a country, and then have 3,4 or 5 different 'arrangements'.
In particular arrangements that are say 4 or 5 days each at different hotel.
IF the hotel has a '30 day 100% cancellation penalty'- in other words, once you are inside 30 days, if you cancel or now show you WILL pay 100%. HOWEVER, that amount is still not 'pre-paid'. You will be charged on the night you no-show, or if you cancel.
It is actually quite surprising but the vast majority of policies will not cover this.
A few seem to cover this if you cancel before you leave (so called 'trip cancellation'):
Benefits will be paid, up to the Maximum Benefit Amount shown in the Confirmation of Benefits, to reimburse You for the amount of the Published Penalties and unused non-refundable Prepaid Payments You paid for Travel Arrangements when You are prevented from taking Your Trip
with a defined term of "Published Penalties". This would include that 100% cancellation penalty. But then, under the trip interruption part (so if you have to cancel hotels once the trip begins) they delete that term. They only cover prepaid amounts.
The only plan I was able to find was the American Express plan (not linked with the card, this is an additional paid plan)
FWIW
Aug 29, 2015, 7:57 am
#6
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BNA
Programs: Virtuoso, FSPP, RC STARS, Rosewood Elite, Bellini, SPG LP, Dorchester Diamond, PenClub
Posts: 357
I work primarily with Travelex for insurance. It is what I buy for myself when I travel.
As a general rule insurance companies can only insure items that have actual costs. Award tickets may have a perceived value, but the only indisputable quantifiable cost are the fees. No insurance company is going to pay for you to fly home in F if you insured an award ticket.
They also generally offer benefits for covered events that can be quantified or proven - an invest or potential tropical storm is not a covered event, but a named tropical storm or hurricane would be covered.
Some insurance will allow you to insure just the deposit or the cost of the entire stay. They leave it up to you to determine your risk tolerance.
Based on your questions so far I think they might be a good fit for the coverage that you would like to purchase: http://www.travelexinsurance.com/tra...surance/plans/
Other popular companies in the industry are Allianz and Travel Guard.
As a general rule insurance companies can only insure items that have actual costs. Award tickets may have a perceived value, but the only indisputable quantifiable cost are the fees. No insurance company is going to pay for you to fly home in F if you insured an award ticket.
They also generally offer benefits for covered events that can be quantified or proven - an invest or potential tropical storm is not a covered event, but a named tropical storm or hurricane would be covered.
Some insurance will allow you to insure just the deposit or the cost of the entire stay. They leave it up to you to determine your risk tolerance.
Based on your questions so far I think they might be a good fit for the coverage that you would like to purchase: http://www.travelexinsurance.com/tra...surance/plans/
Other popular companies in the industry are Allianz and Travel Guard.
Aug 29, 2015, 9:40 pm
#7
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NYC, USA
Posts: 22
Looking for a travel insurance company that will cover
trip interruption if the trip must be extended do to illness.
Most companies pay cover trip interruption for returning home early but not later
Can you advise
Thanks
trip interruption if the trip must be extended do to illness.
Most companies pay cover trip interruption for returning home early but not later
Can you advise
Thanks
Aug 30, 2015, 11:40 am
#8
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,548
I work primarily with Travelex for insurance. It is what I buy for myself when I travel.
As a general rule insurance companies can only insure items that have actual costs. Award tickets may have a perceived value, but the only indisputable quantifiable cost are the fees. No insurance company is going to pay for you to fly home in F if you insured an award ticket.
They also generally offer benefits for covered events that can be quantified or proven - an invest or potential tropical storm is not a covered event, but a named tropical storm or hurricane would be covered.
Some insurance will allow you to insure just the deposit or the cost of the entire stay. They leave it up to you to determine your risk tolerance.
Based on your questions so far I think they might be a good fit for the coverage that you would like to purchase: http://www.travelexinsurance.com/tra...surance/plans/
Other popular companies in the industry are Allianz and Travel Guard.
As a general rule insurance companies can only insure items that have actual costs. Award tickets may have a perceived value, but the only indisputable quantifiable cost are the fees. No insurance company is going to pay for you to fly home in F if you insured an award ticket.
They also generally offer benefits for covered events that can be quantified or proven - an invest or potential tropical storm is not a covered event, but a named tropical storm or hurricane would be covered.
Some insurance will allow you to insure just the deposit or the cost of the entire stay. They leave it up to you to determine your risk tolerance.
Based on your questions so far I think they might be a good fit for the coverage that you would like to purchase: http://www.travelexinsurance.com/tra...surance/plans/
Other popular companies in the industry are Allianz and Travel Guard.
Payments or Deposits
means the amount actually
paid for the Insured’s Covered Trip. Payments or
Deposits may be made by cash, check, credit card,
prepaid vouchers, incurred change fees, administrative
fees, and Currency Units. Payments made in the form
of a non-paid certificate, non-paid voucher or discount
are not Payments or Deposits as defined herein.
means the amount actually
paid for the Insured’s Covered Trip. Payments or
Deposits may be made by cash, check, credit card,
prepaid vouchers, incurred change fees, administrative
fees, and Currency Units. Payments made in the form
of a non-paid certificate, non-paid voucher or discount
are not Payments or Deposits as defined herein.
If you are prevented from taking your Covered Trip for
one of the Covered Reasons, we will reimburse you, up
to the amount in the Schedule, for the amount of forfeited,
and prepaid, non-refundable, and unused Payments or
Deposits that you paid for your Covered Trip.
one of the Covered Reasons, we will reimburse you, up
to the amount in the Schedule, for the amount of forfeited,
and prepaid, non-refundable, and unused Payments or
Deposits that you paid for your Covered Trip.
(The structure of these sentences is actually important)
So, if you place a hotel room on hold. DO NOT PAY FOR IT, but eventually cancel and they THEN charge you the 100% cancel penalty, covered?
I am not arguing about what websites say, what telephone operators say or what "generally" might be true. More interested in the specific coverage text and interpretation.
On to the point you make: "No insurance company is going to pay for you to fly home in F if you insured an award ticket." They may or may not, wouldnt it depend on the text of the policy?
Dont confuse the fact that they will not PAY for the value of a FF ticket with what they might due if your trip is interrupted due to a covered event. They will not pay for a FF ticket if you cancel- no duh. But unless they specifically state that onward emergency flight transport will not cover FF tickets, or they otherwise restrict flight arrangement to economy, they may indeed wind up paying "the same class of service as your original ticket". There is quite a bit of variability on this language, including much that is vague - like "same class of fare". ... does that mean? Class is class, fare is fare. 'class of fare' seems purposefully ambiguous.
here for example from travelex:
Emergency Evacuation & Repatriation Benefits
We will pay this benefit, up to the amount on the
Schedule, for the following Covered Expenses incurred
by you, subject to the following: 1) Covered Expenses
will only be payable at the Usual and Customary level
of payment; 2) benefits will be payable only for Covered
Expenses resulting from a Sickness that first manifests
itself or an Injury that occurs while on a Covered Trip.
Covered Expenses:
5.
expenses for one-way economy class air fare (or
first class, if your original tickets were first class)
to your Home, from a medical facility to which you
were previously evacuated, less any refunds paid or
payable from your unused transportation tickets, if
these expenses are not covered elsewhere in the
plan;
We will pay this benefit, up to the amount on the
Schedule, for the following Covered Expenses incurred
by you, subject to the following: 1) Covered Expenses
will only be payable at the Usual and Customary level
of payment; 2) benefits will be payable only for Covered
Expenses resulting from a Sickness that first manifests
itself or an Injury that occurs while on a Covered Trip.
Covered Expenses:
5.
expenses for one-way economy class air fare (or
first class, if your original tickets were first class)
to your Home, from a medical facility to which you
were previously evacuated, less any refunds paid or
payable from your unused transportation tickets, if
these expenses are not covered elsewhere in the
plan;
Aug 30, 2015, 11:49 am
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,548
My read is that most usually do, HOWEVER the type of illness would require hospitalization and a physician saying 'they cannot be evacuated'. Most coverages provide for evacuation, and they will do that. Back to home.
A note from a doctor saying 'no travel for 4 weeks while those ears clear up here in Hawaii' will not likely be enough.
Once you inform the insurance management THEY will get involved with their own physicians and will determine how to proceed.
Also, be aware of the pre-existing conditions limitations.
Aug 30, 2015, 3:10 pm
#11
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BNA
Programs: Virtuoso, FSPP, RC STARS, Rosewood Elite, Bellini, SPG LP, Dorchester Diamond, PenClub
Posts: 357
Emergency medical evacuation is a whole different beast than simple trip interruption and that is why it has its own section. You may go home in F, even if you insured an economy ticket if that's what makes the most sense for your situation to the doctors and insurance company.
Keep in mind that when these covered situations occur such as a death in the family, a serious accident of a traveling companion, or an imminent hurricane, you may have little to no choice in terms of airline or class of service due to lack of availability.
I have bought the last seat on the last plane out of a destination before a hurricane hit, and getting out was the only thing that mattered. I fly F or J normally, but I would have been happy in the last row on Southwest on that day. And in that instance, yes I did receive compensation for the unused portion of my hotel stay.
To me it doesn't make sense to not insure just because you think you might not be covered. Why not call and find out? You can decide after if you are willing to tolerate all or part of the risk once you know the details. They have always answered quickly and been very knowledgable when I have asked questions on behalf of my clients.
Keep in mind that when these covered situations occur such as a death in the family, a serious accident of a traveling companion, or an imminent hurricane, you may have little to no choice in terms of airline or class of service due to lack of availability.
I have bought the last seat on the last plane out of a destination before a hurricane hit, and getting out was the only thing that mattered. I fly F or J normally, but I would have been happy in the last row on Southwest on that day. And in that instance, yes I did receive compensation for the unused portion of my hotel stay.
To me it doesn't make sense to not insure just because you think you might not be covered. Why not call and find out? You can decide after if you are willing to tolerate all or part of the risk once you know the details. They have always answered quickly and been very knowledgable when I have asked questions on behalf of my clients.
Aug 30, 2015, 3:23 pm
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,548
Emergency medical evacuation is a whole different beast than simple trip interruption and that is why it has its own section. You may go home in F, even if you insured an economy ticket if that's what makes the most sense for your situation to the doctors and insurance company.
Keep in mind that when these covered situations occur such as a death in the family, a serious accident of a traveling companion, or an imminent hurricane, you may have little to no choice in terms of airline or class of service due to lack of availability.
I have bought the last seat on the last plane out of a destination before a hurricane hit, and getting out was the only thing that mattered. I fly F or J normally, but I would have been happy in the last row on Southwest on that day. And in that instance, yes I did receive compensation for the unused portion of my hotel stay.
To me it doesn't make sense to not insure just because you think you might not be covered. Why not call and find out? You can decide after if you are willing to tolerate all or part of the risk once you know the details. They have always answered quickly and been very knowledgable when I have asked questions on behalf of my clients.
Keep in mind that when these covered situations occur such as a death in the family, a serious accident of a traveling companion, or an imminent hurricane, you may have little to no choice in terms of airline or class of service due to lack of availability.
I have bought the last seat on the last plane out of a destination before a hurricane hit, and getting out was the only thing that mattered. I fly F or J normally, but I would have been happy in the last row on Southwest on that day. And in that instance, yes I did receive compensation for the unused portion of my hotel stay.
To me it doesn't make sense to not insure just because you think you might not be covered. Why not call and find out? You can decide after if you are willing to tolerate all or part of the risk once you know the details. They have always answered quickly and been very knowledgable when I have asked questions on behalf of my clients.
2. I might be happy in Y, but I might be happier in F. Id want to make that call, and NOT have my insurer deciding. Especially after the fact.
3. I have called, and gotten past the telephone agents. Here is how that game works.... you call, you relay a scenario...they make a guess. You buy policy. You have a loss and it is not covered. "nothing an agent says is binding, only the written policy controls". It is amazing how little most agents know about the contract terms.
I dont need someone to interpret a contract.
I will likely call travelex with this specific question:
"Is an amount that is guaranteed (but not prepaid) with a credit card, and has a 100% cancellation penalty going to be a covered loss IF a trip is cancelled or interrupted for a Covered Reason. The card would not be charged until either you cancel or you no-show.
If "yes" how is this described in the Policy?"
Simple, no?
Aug 31, 2015, 12:42 pm
#14
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NYC, USA
Posts: 22
Travel ins
Thank you Exec_Plat
In my case I just had a trip interruption with the credit card that I purchased the ticket
I fell and broke my knee cap on my trip to Israel the doctor said stay of your feet for a week
I just paid the difference in ticket price and came back home when I was able to tolerate the thirteen hour flight. did not need to be evacuated.
For the future I would like to be able to buy travel insurance, and are looking for a company that will cover
trip interruption for medical reasons and extend my stay as per doctor advise, which is less expensive than emergency evacuation.
Thanks again for your recomendation
In my case I just had a trip interruption with the credit card that I purchased the ticket
I fell and broke my knee cap on my trip to Israel the doctor said stay of your feet for a week
I just paid the difference in ticket price and came back home when I was able to tolerate the thirteen hour flight. did not need to be evacuated.
For the future I would like to be able to buy travel insurance, and are looking for a company that will cover
trip interruption for medical reasons and extend my stay as per doctor advise, which is less expensive than emergency evacuation.
Thanks again for your recomendation
Aug 31, 2015, 1:02 pm
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,548
Spoke to travelex, then to Transamerican Claims
Oddly, travelex kept giving me a logical run around. The salespeople said it would be covered, but when confronted with the policy definition would repeat 'it needs to be a prepaid deposit'. Id point out it would not be prepaid. Then they would say "we sell a lot of these". Finally they insisted it is covered, even though it isnt in the policy.
Hmmm
They connected me to the underwriters/claims people. Transamerica
Then Transamerica said "it must be pre-paid prior to leaving- a credit card guarantee with a future 100% penalty will not qualify".
back to travelex.... they were confused.
Travelex is looking into this.
Agree that the sales offices are almost useless... I recognize the difference between the policy maker and the policy seller.
Oddly, travelex kept giving me a logical run around. The salespeople said it would be covered, but when confronted with the policy definition would repeat 'it needs to be a prepaid deposit'. Id point out it would not be prepaid. Then they would say "we sell a lot of these". Finally they insisted it is covered, even though it isnt in the policy.
Hmmm
They connected me to the underwriters/claims people. Transamerica
Then Transamerica said "it must be pre-paid prior to leaving- a credit card guarantee with a future 100% penalty will not qualify".
back to travelex.... they were confused.
Travelex is looking into this.
Agree that the sales offices are almost useless... I recognize the difference between the policy maker and the policy seller.