stimpy

I don't think KL, AZ and CZ even have an F class. And the middle east is more than TLV. The top 3 Euro airlines have F class to DXB for instance, with AF flying the A380. And BA has two flights per day to TLV with First class, right? I know they used to at least as I have taken them in F out of TLV in the past both to LHR and LGW.

N965VJ

The unions reduced service?

stimpy

Yep. This was covered in great detail here on Flyertalk if you go back and look through the threads in the UA, AA, etc. forums, and the travel security forum.

N965VJ

Sorry, I don't recall, say, AFA announcing they would no longer serve meals on certain segments, remove pillows / blankets, etc.

stimpy

That's not how it works. The unions pressured management for changes using security as an excuse. Some of the changes were the same ones they pushed for pre-9/11 but never succeeded on. For instance they pushed for all sorts of security for themselves which led to, one example, the mid-cabin curtains being left open, only on US airlines. And all sorts of ways to deal with the new security rules which lead to making it easier for the FA's, and taking them away from service roles. And the worst of them all was to give the FA's ultimate power to get passengers they don't like arrested by the FBI. A power that was abused many times and documented here on Flyertalk and elsewhere. There are too many other points for me to recall now too, which is why I point you to the archives.

dtsm

It started well before 9/11...around time of Bush 1.

stimpy

No, not really. I was flying about 300,000 miles per year at that time, mostly with UA and some AA and AS. In First class, they each had good food and excellent service from 1996 to early 2001. You could see the strains beginning in 2001, but everything really dropped after 9/11/2001 because that was the excuse they needed.

lewisc

A very reasonable request if a person read the story online. Some of us still read printed newspapers. Are we allowed to include a brief summary and discuss the article? Is that prohibited without including a link? What's the rule if the article isn't available online? What's the rule if the online article is on a subscriber only site?

N965VJ

Unions love to beat their chests and tell their membership how much they are doing on their behalf. The first instance I recall was the restriction, and eventual ban, of smoking on aircraft 20 years ago. Of course, AFA didn't take into consideration that a not insignificant number of FAs smoked. AFA also went to the expense of handing out tens of thousands of badges that said "Cleaner Skies, Healthier Lives" without bothering to consider that they would not be approved for wearing on a uniform.

In 2005, when the TSA announced they would roll back some of the restrictions on what could be brought on aircraft, AFA misrepresented the details to their members and launched a shrill fear mongering campaign.

Last summer, AFA testified before the House Subcommittee on Transportation regarding safety. It was a laundry list of fear-mongering and bad ideas, such as disabling the IFE and internet access since they feel these systems could be used by EvilDoers. They also called for restrictions on carry on bags, so FAs would not be distracted dealing with them, leaving them more time to "devote more attention to the more important task of watching for suspicious behavior during the boarding process", which really means sitting on an aft jumpseat doing a crossword puzzle.

I must have been asleep in recurrent when the subject of being able to have the FBI arrest people came up, though. FAs have always been able to have people removed from an aircraft. It's up to the LEOs, if present, to decide if an arrest will be made (such as the drunk that though it would be a good idea to take a swing at a cop on the jetway). There is a disturbing trend of FAs having passengers removed for being "suspicious" (wrong skin color and Ay-rab soundin' names), and the majority of these incidents usually happen on UA and AA.

AllanJ

To me the only problem with paying for first class is not getting it and having to fly full fare coach.

That's bad enough for me to recommend never paying for first class.

IMHO the proper way to downgrade someone out of paid first is to refund more than the difference between what he paid and the cheapest seat he could have gotten as a second choice. To compensate for "insult" said cheapest seat should not need to have the same lack of restrictions as the first class seat originally paid for.)