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Is boarding early with children rude?

Is boarding early with children rude?

Old Nov 26, 2015, 1:48 am
  #31  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Given 3-3-3 and 3-4-3 seating arrangements, car seat placement in seat is more likely to be passenger displacing if the car seat installer boards later than sooner. Courtesy of airlines' emergency evacuation concerns and how car seat placement works into that.
I agree that parents with a car seat boarding last would slow the process. However, again IME, many of the families I have seen are not bringing one of these along.
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Old Nov 26, 2015, 1:55 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by greg99
Well, you're the one who said that you weren't "sure why your child would rank, say, above my mother (if I was traveling with her)." Since you said you didn't understand why traveling with children was different from traveling with able-bodied adults, I was attempting to help you understand.
That may have been your intent, but a condescending way to do it. You are talking about traveling with children as if it is outside the realm of understanding of people who don’t have children. It is not brain surgery or performing a spacewalk. Most people without kids “get” it is a hassle and entails extra work and coordination – this is not hard a hard concept to understand. My point is why should your children trump my family / friends / co-workers in regards to boarding.

Originally Posted by greg99
So, putting aside what seems to be an anti-"breeder" philosophy (which often seems to be at the heart of these sorts of threads), my point wasn't that parenthood was necessary to understand why traveling with young children was more difficult than traveling without children, but it is sufficient to understand.

I traveled without children for many years, including in the pre-GS 1K days, and I certainly took pity on parents who had to schlep gear down to the plan, and didn't bemoan the fact that they were boarding before me, when I would otherwise be the first person on the plane.
I would say my philosophy is more “anti-entitled parents with children” then “anti-children”. Again, my issue is the entitlement many parents with children feel that they should get to board early or other such considerations.

Sorry friend but having kids does not mean people without kids need to bend over backwards or make considerations on your behalf. Maybe I’m just an a** but I do not feel that sorry when I see parents having to schlep gear and other child related hassles – they did CHOOSE to have children, right?

Originally Posted by greg99
Or, alternatively, that means that they didn't start the pre-boarding early enough.
That could be true.

Originally Posted by greg99
No, you make a fair point - I don't have data suggesting that preboarding is more efficient. The airlines don't generally publish that sort of data.

That said, while I acknowledge the importance of data in decision making, I would also suggest that you consider the conclusions drawn by the authors of this meta-analysis:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300808/

Greg
Not sure where you are going with this. I do not need proof or “data” as I said for all things in life, but if the best people can give is anecdotal examples of family first boarding working better for everyone I would challenge that.

PS - Happy Thanksgiving!
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Old Nov 26, 2015, 7:20 am
  #33  
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OP here. I should have clarified. 90% of my travel with my child has been on American Eagle, so all elites are boarded first, and at the same time. The rest has been on mainline AA in F. We are not preboarding, we are simply boarding when the rest of the elites or cabin are called. And I do so for the normal reasons...overhead bin space, especially an issue when seated in the bulkhead row.

I can also promise you I'm faster at getting in and getting seated than most of the other passengers that I watch. So my question should have maybe been "all things being equal, is it inherently rude to board first?"

And yes, I've had more than one person tell me no one wants to be on a plane with a child longer than necessary, so we should be the last ones on.
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Old Nov 26, 2015, 8:52 am
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Steve_19
I agree that parents with a car seat boarding last would slow the process. However, again IME, many of the families I have seen are not bringing one of these along.
Boarding very young children last, even when no car seat is along, can slow down things way more than if boarding them very early on. Keep in mind that extra cabin baggage allowance is included for many such travel parties; keep in mind that there are non-car-seat child restraining devices approved for in-flight use; keep in mind that setting up the food and entertainment options for the young children takes some more time and space on average than it does for the average adult passenger; keep in mind that increased stressed out/anxiety levels for the accompanying adults is something that increases the odds of the young children acting out in ways that increase the disturbance levels.

The sooner the young children get situated and comfortable with comfort food and choice entertainment, the more likely it is that those young children on your flights end up not being as much (if at all) a disruptive nuisance.

My youngest relatives in the extended family do board early and do so frequently; but then again it's not that rare for these related children to have airline elite status, sometimes even higher than the parents or other accompanying adult(s). And yet the looks, even when boarding early on the same basis as the average premium cabin business traveler.

Is boarding early rude when it is makes things more convenient for the other travelers on the flight? I would say it is better described as being rather considerate.
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Old Nov 26, 2015, 12:30 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by Steve_19
Most people without kids get it is a hassle and entails extra work and coordination this is not hard a hard concept to understand. My point is why should your children trump my family / friends / co-workers in regards to boarding.
It's about time and traffic flow. If your family/friends/co-workers have an issue (medical, cognitive, or other similar) which reduces the speed at which they move or puts them at risk in crowded jetway or aisle, then allowing them to pre-board would be in the general interest.

Originally Posted by Steve_19
I would say my philosophy is more anti-entitled parents with children then anti-children. Again, my issue is the entitlement many parents with children feel that they should get to board early or other such considerations.
Exactly how are people displaying the sense of entitlement you claim they possess? By taking advantage of a perk the airline offers? If that's all you've got, then by that same token every single person on FT falls in the same "entitled" category.

Originally Posted by Steve_19
Sorry friend but having kids does not mean people without kids need to bend over backwards or make considerations on your behalf. Maybe Im just an a** but I do not feel that sorry when I see parents having to schlep gear and other child related hassles they did CHOOSE to have children, right?
Maybe spend a little time studying economic and sociological theories to better understand how those children are crucial to your own future?

Originally Posted by Steve_19
Not sure where you are going with this. I do not need proof or data as I said for all things in life, but if the best people can give is anecdotal examples of family first boarding working better for everyone I would challenge that.
Again, try thinking without the hostility as shown in your repeated use of the word "entitled" when you mention children/parents.

Airlines attempt to act in their own best economic interests - can we agree on that?

Why do the majority of airlines allow families with small children to pre-board?

The economic goal of the airline is get planes out on time to avoid delays which would cost them $$$$. If their data did not show that pre-boarding children sped up the overall boarding process, why would they do it? It's certainly not for the sake of being nice, or because they like kids.
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Old Nov 27, 2015, 12:33 pm
  #36  
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Originally Posted by CDTraveler

Why do the majority of airlines allow families with small children to pre-board?

The economic goal of the airline is get planes out on time to avoid delays which would cost them $$$$. If their data did not show that pre-boarding children sped up the overall boarding process, why would they do it? It's certainly not for the sake of being nice, or because they like kids.
Which airlines allow families to preboard? I've only flown AA in years, and they don't.
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Old Nov 27, 2015, 12:33 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by Steve_19
And then, IME, many families monopolize more then needed part of the overheard bins.
IME it's the men travelling alone with a big roller bag and who refuse to put their laptop and/or jacket under the seat in front of them that utilize more overhead space than warranted.

If I'm travelling with my kids I'm minimizing the amount of crap I have to manuver through the airport. The car seats are already a significant portion of that bulk and those go in the seat. We have backpacks that go under the seats and maybe one medium duffel bag that goes in the overhead between the 4 to 7 of us.
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Old Nov 27, 2015, 12:34 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by Kate2015
Which airlines allow families to preboard? I've only flown AA in years, and they don't.
Alaska does.
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Old Nov 27, 2015, 2:43 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by firespirit
IME it's the men travelling alone with a big roller bag and who refuse to put their laptop and/or jacket under the seat in front of them that utilize more overhead space than warranted.

If I'm travelling with my kids I'm minimizing the amount of crap I have to manuver through the airport. The car seats are already a significant portion of that bulk and those go in the seat. We have backpacks that go under the seats and maybe one medium duffel bag that goes in the overhead between the 4 to 7 of us.
Those traveling with young children seem to make greater use of the under-seat space than the business traveling men using the overhead bin in the same rows, with the exception of perhaps comparing those in the bulkhead seats. Overhead bin space doesn't get hogged up as much by families with young children as it does by others.
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Old Nov 27, 2015, 3:10 pm
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by Kate2015
Which airlines allow families to preboard? I've only flown AA in years, and they don't.
I've been pre-boarded with small children on both AA and Delta. It's not always consistent, but it's been more often than not since we started flying with small children 4 years ago.

On the question of "why" pre-board families (even before F), I have two practical thoughts:

1. Families with small children often have items that will be gate checked. Allowing them to board early allows the airline staff more time to stow those items.

2. For the comfort of F passengers. The narrowness of the aisles means that maneuvering kid + stuff can make it easy to bump a passenger, esp. if seats on both sides of the aisle are occupied. I'm sure F passengers would rather avoid that experience.
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Old Nov 27, 2015, 3:16 pm
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Those traveling with young children seem to make greater use of the under-seat space than the business traveling men using the overhead bin in the same rows, with the exception of perhaps comparing those in the bulkhead seats. Overhead bin space doesn't get hogged up as much by families with young children as it does by others.
Exactly. Even when travelling alone as a woman I can manage to condense an entire weekend to a bag that fits under the seat in front of me. When I travel with my kids I have to check a bag anyway, so it's easier to carry on as little as possible.
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Old Nov 27, 2015, 7:03 pm
  #42  
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Originally Posted by firespirit
IME it's the men travelling alone with a big roller bag and who refuse to put their laptop and/or jacket under the seat in front of them that utilize more overhead space than warranted.
.
Yes, this!

I take up a lot of overhead bin space - I travel with a laptop bag + diaper bag and always sit in the bulkhead row (I don't want my bags accessible to a nosy toddler). Those two bags can almost fill up an ERJ overhead bin, but until businessmen put their laptops under their seat and jackets on their laps, I will make no apologies for that.
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Old Nov 27, 2015, 7:21 pm
  #43  
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My only response to the OP is that my observation is that the parents that are concerned about being rude are usually the most polite and considerate out there. If you are following the rules as set out by your airline, then don't worry about the reactions of others.
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Old Nov 29, 2015, 9:00 am
  #44  
 
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When the gate agent calls for people with small children or those who need a little extra time getting settled, it isn't rude to board if you fit either of the two aforementioned criteria.

-LPDAL
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Old Nov 30, 2015, 4:48 am
  #45  
 
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Jet Blue and Southwest both do preboarding of families with young children. I believe with JetBlue you may have to mention at the gate that you'd like it. Then, they will announce it when it is time. For both Southwest and JetBlue, IME, certain elites go first, then disabled passengers, then families with young kids, then the rest, as determined by the airline's policies.

As for families not flying on airlines with open seating, that's ridiculous. In some markets, Southwest is the dominant or even exclusive carrier. Plus, Southwest has a provision specifically to allow families to preboard.

And regarding families monopolizing overhead space, this, too, has no basis in fact. My family uses no bin space. We check one or two large Briggs and Riley rolling duffels and carry on a couple of backpacks. We also carry on two car seats and gate check a stroller.

In contrast, when we travel without kids, we always take up bin space, because we carry on our B&R rollaboards.
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