PTravel

You are if your expectation is that someone will move to accommodate you.

Apparently, you misunderstand:

Unless you're traveling in an emergency or other compelling situation, e.g. relocation, I don't care if you travel or not. If you don't travel because you couldn't get seats together with your kid, I don't care. If you have to wait for a later flight because an equipment change separated you, I don't care. If you have to restrict your travel to WN because you'll be able to get seats together, I don't care.

Your requirement that you sit next to your child is NOT my problem, nor the problem of anyone else who is a stranger to you.

I'm not seething with rage. However, it didn't take very long for you to resort to personal attack, did it?

Well, you'd already established that by your sense of entitlement.

mduell

Thanks, I didn't realize they ended that in 2012.

Would you agree there are ways for the family to meet their unique needs without imposing (seat swapping/poaching, unattended children, etc) on other travelers?

pdsales

Let's assume that a parent and a four-year-old board the aircraft, each assigned to a center seat.

And for the sake of this scenario, let's stipulate that the parent is an annoying jerk who should have waited for a later flight where he or she could have had a seat assigned next to the child.

Let's go one step further, this parent is the worst human being in the world, someone who you would never accommodate if they were travelling solo.

But then there is the four-year-old who has spent many hours in an airport trailing that annoying jerk of a parent. The four-year-old didn't make the reservation, didn't choose to board a flight with a center seat assignment between two strangers, and is in the 12th hour of a journey that should have been completed in three hours. And Mom or Dad is about to disappear down the aisle.

The parent doesn't deserve a favor. But if I can relieve a small bit of the angst from this four-year-old I will do it, even at the expense of appearing to accommodate an annoying jerk who doesn't deserve it.

Yes the parent is an annoying jerk, but the child who is suffering as a result of that parent's choices did nothing wrong. And the bigger the jerk that the parent is, the more this particular child who has to go home and be raised by that jerk is deserving of a small act of kindness.

SAAG

Yes, yes YES!!! This happens to us regularly also, and it drives me crazy!

WARNING... RANT AHEAD...

I book months in advance, and I pay extra so I can reserve our seats in advance. Despite this, the airlines regularly change our so-called reserved seats on us, and yes, we've found ourselves at risk of being scattered all over the plane (even though we were traveling with a 2 and 4 year old at the time! Luckily I caught this before our flight date came up, but what a piss off (I was able to have the airline fix it so we were once again seated next to our children)! I'm sorry, but a 2 year old and a 4 year old have no business being seated away from their parents. Good luck to the stranger sitting next to such a young child when all they want is their parent.

Quite frankly, the heartlessness of people on here going on about how they wouldn't be willing to try and help out by switching seats in this situation disgusts me.

(Keep in mind, I'm not talking about asking someone to trade who NEEDS the seat they have as much as I might need a trade... I'm talking about asking to trade with someone who merely prefers their currently seat, but has no other reason for needing to stay in it)

People go on and on about how families aren't planning properly etc, when they have NO IDEA what that family may or may not have done to book seats together prior to their flights. People assume the family is showing up at the airport failing to book their seats in advance. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt? Hell, if I didn't check my seat assignments regularly prior to my flight date, we'd have been one of those families desperately needing a seat change so each of our children would have a parent next to them. (again, keep in mind we ALWAYS book far enough in advance to be able to PAY for seat next to each other)

Oh, and in my case, if we found ourselves in need of a last minute seat trade due to the airline messing up our seat assignments, yes, we'd have tried to have all 4 of us seated together - not because we're selfish brutes, but because I have severe eye issues that prevent me from keeping my eyes open for an entire flight - I NEED my husband nearby to help with our 2nd child for those times when I literally can't bear to keep my eyes open in that dry cabin air.

It's not necessarily the fault of the family if they need a trade to enable a parent to sit next to their child.

I almost wish I'd never read this.

It would have been nicer to have my head in the sand and believe that most people are reasonable compassionate individuals.

So, I guess families ought to just stay home in suburbia and not venture out until everyone is of adult age? Perhaps we ought to lock up those annoying little children so the grown ups can have their precious peace (and airline seats). And as for me, what kind of idiot must I be for daring to fly if I need help from my husband (and therefore need him close by). Shame on us all!

But, to those who have a heart, thank-you for posting - nice to know there are still some people like you still out there! ^

To the rest of you, I hope I never have the displeasure of meeting you in the air.

P.S. Yes, I'd gladly change seats if traveling alone (or with my hubby sans kids), and someone else needed my seat more than me. It's the right thing to do.

P.P.S. Yes, I realize it's an imposition to ask anyone to trade seats, and I hope I never need to do it. And yes, I'd be thanking profusely anyone who agreed to trade a seat to accommodate me (us). And no, I am not advocating just taking a seat that I would like without asking permission first. These things should be mutually agreed upon.

CDTraveler

Most definitely I would not agree that families are always able to meet their needs during travel without "imposing" on other travelers, and for that matter, neither can self-righteous "business's" travelers. Way too many aspects of air travel are completely out of the customer's control.

I have had flights where I booked the tickets 4 months in advance, selected seats together, printed out proof of what I had booked, and discovered at T-48 that our seats had been changed and flight was full. The answer from the airline was "software problem, get someone to trade with you."

Another trip I had booked had a long layover, deliberately chosen by me, and seats carefully selected by me, but when we checked at the airport, the check-in person changed our second flight to a shorter connection without asking me and gave child and me seats several rows apart, and then claimed she was unable to put us back on our original flight. Fortunately the GA at the connecting airport was able to solve the seating problem.

Other times we've had mechanical delays, weather delays, etc. - the same garbage any other traveler has to deal with: do you suggest we should just sit in the connecting airport for a day or two, pay an exorbitant change fee and wait until there is a flight with open seats together?

After being on FT for nearly a decade and seeing literally thousands of posts whining about being "inconvenienced" by someone traveling with a child, I say forget* that garbage, there is always going to somebody complaining about anything and everything (see Travel Buzz and Omni for proof) and I will do what it takes to make our trip work, and furthermore, I don't owe anyone any justification of why we travel.


*the TOS prohibit the word I really want to use here, but adults can fill it in

rjque

"Unique" needs? I think it's pretty clear that this is a fairly common need.

mre5765

For flights of duration two hours or less, I generally will give up my aisle or window to move to a middle to allow family members to sit together. But I want to see who I am sitting next to, I.e, no CoS.

WN doesn't have this problem because it has no assigned seating and families board after group A but before group B.

AA, DL, and UA, can and should avoid this problem by designating the last rows of each plane as open seating and then boarding families with no seat assignment after first/business class, EXP, 1K, and Diamond, provided they check all carryons except for personal items that fit under the seat. Then if there are irrops, families will always be able to sit together. The big three could even charge extra for access to open seating, and which airline would ever forgo an opportunity to charge more money.

It is an easy solution. I don't know why the big three subjects themselves to all the bad press. Eventually Congress is going to force a solution that no one likes.

atsak

As a reference for how someone who has to deal with this dealt with it, we were booked months in advance on our recent Hawaii flights on Delta. There were no seats for us to sit together as a family when I called right after booking. There were no premium economy seats available to purchase (I was on an award booking anyway). We were told to ask at the airport.

At the airport, we checked in 3 hours early. There were no seats for all of us together, but they could get my wife and the kids together and I had to sit somewhere else (so my wife was stuck with all three kids in one row).

I solved this by bribing the person sitting on the aisle to swap with me for my middle with $20 cash and a drink coupon the FA was kind enough to assist with.

On the way home on UA on the second part of our trip we were stuck in the cancellations after new year. We were to depart on Sunday but we left on Thursday because we did not want to be separated for the earliest available flight for the Wednesday red eye and I paid for E+.

In future I think the lesson I learned is that I will not buy a flight on an airline where I cannot get seats together in advance (ie they have to show me the seat map before I will book). So in other words, as is my policy I will vote with my wallet and will pay MORE for a flight that I can guarantee seats together. I may not have had this option this time given the peak travel period (Christmas).

Interestingly our flight on WN that was part of this multi stop itinerary was no problem sitting together despite a 100% full plane because of their family boarding policy for small kids (we have a 7yo, 4yo and 6 month old).

So . . . all of this to say that there are ways to make this happen, but you might need to get your wallet out. As usual, money talks.

celsius1939

I guess that I am old and crotchety, but "in the old days", we didn't fly with young children. WE DROVE BY CAR. While this may not be possible in a small number of cases, it is the best solution for all concerned. The second best solution is for the airlines to keep seats assigned more than 2 months in advance and parents book before then. The second best solution above is only appropriate if the parents keep the child quiet.

intltravel90

Interesting solution. I wonder, though, if that would create more chaos than simply prioritizing families for seating.

mre5765

"Prioritizing families for seating" is merely code for displacing single travelers who reserved seats months in advance. There is chaos and then there is chaos.

Open seating works on WN. There is no chaos.

rjque

It could mean making certain groups of seats available only to people with a child on the PNR, without displacing anyone. But I also like the idea of open seating in the back with assigned seating up front. Both are reasonable solutions, though I think it is easier and less expensive for airlines to displace passengers when necessary (and the COC allows them to do this), so I doubt airlines will adopt anything new.

USHPNWDLUA

The issue for me is not parents who want to sit together. My wife and I like to sit together, in irrops cases, or upgrade cases. I think we all know this desire. These are the issues to me:
1. Anyone who just deigns to take your seat, one for which you paid extra, putting you in the unfortunate position of having to ask for your rightful seat.
2. Anyone who just deigns to take your seat, one for which you did not pay extra, putting you in the unfortunate position of having to ask for your rightful seat.
3. Anyone who asks to trade seats knowing that they are asking you to take a poor seat choice so that they may have your better seat.
4. Anyone who gets upset because another passenger declines to accept the trade request.
5. Any one using unjustifiable or nonexistent reasons to make a request or defend against a poach or request.

I think 99% of people on the board want to help. They just don't want the "family card" or the "married couple" card played without being given the courtesy of being asked first. See, they really have nothing to do with children. If the child is old enough to sit by himself or herself, see #5. Some people will refuse to change. They think that parents could have resolved the issue, when they really couldn't have. See #4 and try another action.

There's a lot of people on the plane, being polite and asking before taking a seat is the polite and respectful thing to do. Anyone acting this way will find many people willing to accommodate.

Yesterday at a UA event, woman and her two daughters pushes her way to the front of the line "because I have kids and my husband is up there..." Didn't even ask. This is the same kind of "playing the non-existent parent card crap that people on planes pull to justify poaching. It's rude and it's wrong.

dcman2

While I don't particularly want to add flame to the fire, I do want to add here. This happens to me nearly every single time my family flies. We get our tickets, we reserve our seats, our seats get changed, because I "farm" our reservations and check them regularly I re-reserve seats together, then there is an equipment change an hour before the flight leaves and the 4 of us end up in rows away from one another.

For the solo fliers out their, I know you're upset your specially chosen seat is being asked to be changed, say no if you wish. I'll be polite even though not 1 but 4 of my seats have have been changed and you'll complain anyway about having to sit next to my unattended child. I'll still be civil, my kids will be civil, whether you are or not.

I'm done, I doubt I'll even bother to read further posts as they will be unpleasant. But please do be aware that my family and I are regular travelers, we're not "kettles", we accept being held to a higher standard of behavior than everyone else and we reach that standard whether you're going to notice or not. I watch my reservations carefully, but when changes happen to a family with children it affects everyone in the party, and there is a decent chance it has nothing to do with families being idiots or now knowing how to fly appropriately. I know we all have horror stories about poorly behaved kids and parents, but the truth is I see 4 poorly behaving adults for every poorly behaved child. My child would be punished significantly for exhibiting the same rude behavior that gets accepted daily by airline staff and passengers.

Best to everyone -
[/I]

tcollins33

I'll move for pretty much any reason if someone asks me politely. My rule is that I'll always move as long as I'm not in a seat that's worse than what I already have. There's no way I'm trading for a middle seat unless I was booked in a middle seat.

It's all about the presentation, though. A few years ago a woman wanted my seat to sit with her husband. She looked at me and stated sternly, "I need to sit with my husband. You're going to have to take my seat." I waved by boarding pass and said, "I *am* in my seat." Had she asked and said "please" it wouldn't have been an issue for me (assuming it wasn't a middle seat).