vicarious_MR'er

Being UNDERSTANDING of other passengers' needs is important for all of us, parents and non-parents alike. However, being considerate of others' needs does not automatically translate into accommodating those needs, and that's where I think you've gone very, very wrong with this post to be honest.

I can understand that another person might need to recline just as much as my child needs to sit rear-facing. However, understanding it does not mean it becomes my responsibility to make it happen. Sometimes "hey man... sorry about that" is the best you can do.

None of those "what if" scenarios you mentioned things trump established FAA policy that parents have the rightto use rear-facing seats in aircraft, so I'd look at it the other way around: I don't need to imagine a million theoretical scenarios that probably aren't true anyway as to why I as a parent shouldn't seat my child in an allowed and safe manner.

What the person in front of my infant does to get his or her needs met is his or her issue. There is general decency and consideration for people around us, which is very important, but there is also individual responsibility. Sometimes you can have both and the situation still doesn't end up perfect for all parties, unfortunately.

If I were in a situation like the one described in the OP, I would look to see if swapping the baby's position and having one of the older people sit behind the woman in question would make it work out for everyone involved. However, if that didn't work for any number of reason (like the infant seat can only be placed in certain seating locations, for example), then tough luck, lady. My first responsibility is the proper and safe seating of my child. I consider the impact of things on the people around me to the greatest degree possible, but it's still not going to be perfect 100% of the time. A parent is never overstepping his or her bounds using a rear-facing seat.

azepine00

Bravo Sierra. When a parent buys an oversized carrier (there are plenty of small ones yet many seem to like the idea of getting 35lb jumbo graco) and book a seat with limited space (instead of economy plus, bulkhead etc) it's the parent who should deal with consequences.

If some paranoid parent feels that a reclining pax in front impacts her kids safety, leave and find another flight that can accommodate those needs.

vicarious_MR'er

I know I had the smallest infant carrier on the market (one of the 22 lb ones), and it wasn't POSSIBLE to recline the seat in front. As far as I am aware, there's no safety issue with regard to the person in front reclining when it's possible. If it's possible, recline away! I don't know where the safety-recline comment came from. I can't recall if others suggested that the person in front reclining presents a hazard, but I know I didn't claim that. The safety issue in question is that children of a certain age or below can't sit facing forward.

Honestly, I am really accommodating to others, but this is one case where there's not much to be done about it. An infant who is small enough to require rear-facing has as much right to occupy the space as the 6-foot-7 guy who prevents the person in front from reclining because his legs are in the way. It's wonderful to accommodate others whenever possible (I know I do), but there are a couple circumstances when is just isn't possible.

firespirit

Has anyone making comments like these actually flown with a child in a carrier recently?!?

I don't have the smallest car seat, for sure but we refuse to buy safety stuff for our daughter that's made in China. Which left us with one option on car seats, Peg Perego. It's not "huge" but it's not small either, so the person in front of her can't recline.

AA does not have economy plus. Last time we flew, we requested the bulkhead, got on the plane only to discover there were airbags in the bulkhead row and then told that we couldn't have her car seat there so we were relocated back to our original seats. We did later find out the air bags can be deactivated with a seat belt extender, however that doesn't explain how the seat belts with airbags will fit through the seat belt track in the car seat.

Yes the woman in front of my daughter got annoyed, the flight attendant offered to find her another seat (we were in row 10 and it didn't have a window so she wouldn't have wanted to trade with us anyway) but she didn't want to move, she just apparently wanted to complain and wanted us to move the carseat. Before the flight everyone in her row (on both sides of the aisle) was playing musical chairs and we warned her that she wouldn't be able to recline and she could have taken the opportunity to move then, but didn't.

In short the opportunities for getting a bulkhead or economy plus seat are not always available and probably less available to the less frequent travelers. As the PP stated my daughter has just as much right to occupy the space I paid for as the really tall person. For the record, I have sat in front of someone too tall before and didn't complain.

azepine00

Yep. As a matter of fact with twins <1 on at least a dozen flights.
We didn't buy Per Perego, Britax or other overpriced fancy bulky stuff but i measured and bought a couple Babytrends (made in china - oh horror!). Among the flights we took there were a couple on CRJ200 in 31" seat without any economy plus and a person in front of us, get this, actually reclined.

Preventing others from reclining is simply selfish and inconsiderate. There are many ways to make sure your kids are safe but you just picked the one that's most convenient to you with total disregard to your neighbors needs.

BTW are you implying that parent who don't buy Per Perego but rather "made in china" stuff don't care about safety of kids?

firespirit

Well first, I never said that. Not buying from china is a choice my husband and I made. Second, buying from places other than china is hardly convenient.

Yes, maybe I am selfish. I thought first about the hundreds of car trips my child will be taking her first year of life rather than the half a dozen plane trips. I failed to think about the space between seats on an airplane when selecting a car seat and I guess assumed that the FAA approval meant it would fit.

As a side note, I have found her seat actually fits better on regional jets and MD-80's than it does on a 737.

emma69

My comment was not about whether children should or should not sit rear facing, it was about the poster who proclaimed another passenger 'selfish' for wanting to recline, without knowing the first thing about that passenger.

If it were me, I would see what work around we could make happen (see if there was another free seat, switch seats, etc). Then I would tell the FA about the rights as outlined by the FAA and ask what they can do to fix the problem (maybe upgrade the passenger in front, etc). But at no point would I call the passenger in front selfish for wanting to do what can reasonably be expected (that is recline the seat designed for that very purpose).

swise

This is an old thread, but I wanted to chime in.

My 15-month-old has flown on dozens of flights, each time in a purchased seat, each time in a rear-facing car seat. We have used 3 different car seats, in fact:

Graco Snugride 22, an inexpensive, "small" infant carrier. We have flown on MD 80s, regional jets, and, I believe, a 737 with this seat, all on American Airlines. The passenger in front of us was unable to recline on all of these planes. This seat is not able to be used forward-facing at all. It would not be secure in that orientation, as it's not designed for it. (As in it could fall off of the seat if someone stupidly tried to do it)

Graco Snugride 35, a large infant carrier. There was really no difference in how this seat fit on MD80s, regional jets or 737s. The passenger in front was still unable to recline, and it took up pretty much the same amount of space. This seat is not able to be used forward-facing at all. It would not be secure in that orientation, as it's not designed for it. (As in it could fall off of the seat if someone stupidly tried to do it)

Cosco Scenera - the model sold exclusively through Target that has a 40 lb rear-facing weight limit (vs the standard 35 lb limit). This is an inexpensive convertible car seat -- one of the least expensive on the market. But it's also regarded as a fine, no-frills seat and is a popular choice for air travel, due to being light-weight and for being capable of fitting in airline seats rear-facing. We've used it on MD-80s, regional jets and 737s.

Here's the deal. FAA policy requires me to use a seat according to the manufacturer's guidelines. For the infant carriers, there's simply no way to forward-face them, and they will prevent the seats in front of them from reclining. For convertibles, rear-facing is safest. It doesn't matter what age your child is; rear-facing within the weight/height limits of the seat is recommended as the safest option for children, and the FAA guidelines allow parents to utilize convertible car seats in this orientation. The AAP now advises parents to keep their children rear-facing until *at least* age 2. In Sweden it's the law to rear-face children until age 4. Incidentally, auto fatalities in kids under 4 are virtually unheard of there.

Sorry folks, I'm going to ensure my child is as safe as he can be when traveling by car or by air or by rickshaw or hot air balloon. That's how I roll. Safety trumps convenience every time in my book. The FAA protects my decision. I have chosen a seat that can fit rear-facing on a plane, and I intend to use it in that orientation until my child maxes out the rear-facing specs.

What to do?

We travel with a pile of Starbuck's gift cards. The minute someone sits in the seat in front of my son we offer them one for the inconvenience of not being able to recline. Usually they turn us down, but we insist, and sometimes they take it. We have never had someone complain about not being able to recline.

Yes, try to get a bulkhead. That's not easy to do, though, and, as someone mentioned, some bulkheads don't accommodate car seats.

If both parents are traveling with the child, and someone really balks at not being able to recline, offer for one parent to switch seats with the inconvenienced traveler.

If the above options won't cut it, flag down a flight attendant and see if she can find another seat for the passenger.

Final option: offer to buy the passenger wine or a cocktail on the flight.

Sometimes we simply can't accommodate everyone's needs every time. In those instances, we do the best we can and acknowledge that we're all stuck on this spinning ball of dirt and water together, and we need to find ways to make the most of it. There are bigger fish to fry.

For more info, I'd encourage everyone to visit http://car-seat.org. It is a wonderful resource for all things related to car seats. There's a ton of misinformation on this thread, and this site will clarify all of it.

Final thought: If a seat is broken and won't recline, the airline is under no obligation to accommodate or compensate the inconvenienced passenger. A seat that reclines is not guaranteed on flights.

CBear

My 3 month old son is already 26 inches long with a very long torso. He rides in a Safety 1st Onboard Air35. His head is 2.5" from the top of the seat shell. Even though the height limit for this seat is 31 inches, an infant seat is considered to small if the child's head is within one inch of the top of the shell.

He might be a big baby, but that by no means mean it is safe to turn him forward. Sorry that you are inconvenienced, but he simply does not fit in the small infant seats.

azepine00

Book bulkhead or E+ of smth of similar nature. Those are your problems you selfishly avoid to save $ by inconveniencing others.

swise

As I mentioned, we offer a Starbuck's gift card to every passenger who sits in front of our son in his car seat, even if there is a neighboring seat available. In virtually all of the cases the gift card has been declined, and passengers have told us any combination of the following:

"I don't intend to recline anyway"

"I was/am a parent, so I understand traveling with kids, and it's not an inconvenience for me."

"I don't mind."

"It's not a big deal for me"

"That's very thoughtful of you and too generous."

azepine00 seems to be unaware that most airlines reserve the bulkhead row for elite flyers, and most parents (most passengers in general) are not elite. These days just finding three (or more) adjacent seats on a flight can be tricky, even when booked well in advance. Finding multiple bulkhead seats all together for a family can be like locating a four-leaf clover.

Again, reclining seats are not guaranteed on flights. And, at least going by the dozens of passengers whom I have offered compensation for any inconvenience we may have caused, most people have not expressed that they are put out. In fact, of the few who have actually taken the gift card, none have expressed that they would be inconvenienced by not leaning back. Usually they only take the card upon our insistence. Some people are too nice to say no, and some are too nice to say yes.

CBear

How many domestic airlines offer E+ for non-status flyers? How many average families can afford to buy 3 or 4 E+ seats? As mentioned previously, it's next to impossible to book a bulkhead seat for an entire family. Not to mention that a lot of bulkheads seats really do not offer more space, or is simply a curtain that separate first class from economy (on domestic airlines).

It's not trying to save money, it's trying to not put yourself in debt over an airline ticket.

emma69

All bulkheads offer the fact that someone is not reclining into it - first row of economy where the separation is a curtain isn't a bulkhead.

You can buy a larger / better / more ideally positioned seat on lots of aircraft. I bought one a few days ago. The family doesn't need to buy 3-4 extra seats - one adult can travel next to the baby seat, the other adult (and additional larger children) can be in the (cheaper) row behind, for example. Or you could book e.g. 17A, 18A and B - so that the only person inconvenienced by a seat stopping 17A reclining, is related to you.

VickiSoCal

On some aircraft the bulkhead is also the exit row.

Almo

I understand this is an old post but I'm going to reply anyway.

Yes, you are supposed to turn up at the airport early. You are aware that you are probably going to inconvenience another passenger, so you need to do what is possible to avoid that. If it's not possible, fair enough, no one wants you to put your child in danger but you should try.