Economy passengers can't go up to business and First BUT First and Business can go back to economy. There are no restrictions on this.
Don't forget that the First class passengers have usually paid much more money than those in Economy. They complain soooo much faster about crying babies. Also, it's not that common to have babies up there but meanwhile, the economy section usually has several, if not many. So one more infant probably wont be noticed.
The other issue is that just walking around the cabin with the baby can calm him or her down. Obviously, if the passenger is restricted only to First class, they can't do much walking! I'd put the baby in the carrier and just go for a stroll and often they were asleep by the time I got back to our seats. I don't think a First class passenger should be prevented from doing this!
Forcing a mother and baby to stay up in First is not only unfair but unreasonable and there are no rules against her being able to move around the cabin!
Please, please, please, for everyone's sake, no matter what class make sure the baby is sucking on something on takeoff and landing. Both are murder on children's ears. It's easier to try to prevent the pressure changes from hurting their ears than to deal with them when they are in pain
Please note that the sucking on take-off and landing thing is a MYTH. In my 13 years as a Flight Attendant, I rarely saw babies have ear problems. Also, we fly transatlantics about twice a year and I never have done anything with my children on take-off and landing and their ears were just fine!
The AAP simply advices the baby be awake at the TOP of descent (landing is too late). I explained further in the other thread so please don't make parents wake their babies up unnecessarily. If their ears are healthy, babies handle pressurization changes just fine!
It's also not true that children have to stay in car seats the whole time. The most critical times of the flight are take-off and landing, when they need to be safely strapped in. Once the seatbelt sign is off, you can remove the baby from the car seat. No problem!
They complain soooo much faster about crying babies.
So, in other words, if people in economy learned to complain faster about crying babies, then you wouldn't advise first class parents to take their children back to economy? Wow, I'll tell all my friends who fly economy that the moment that a baby starts making a noise then they should complain immediately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipsepearl
The other issue is that just walking around the cabin with the baby can calm him or her down. Obviously, if the passenger is restricted only to First class, they can't do much walking! I'd put the baby in the carrier and just go for a stroll and often they were asleep by the time I got back to our seats. I don't think a First class passenger should be prevented from doing this!
Just out of curiosity, are you also advocating that if a parent in economy class has a crying baby s/he be allowed to walk about the first class cabin as well?
This is a near endless discussion on travel topics. As the OP is assuming that he and his wife will be able to travel easily and often with baby, it is obvious he has a lot to learn.
So true! You may think you know what you are getting into, but until you experience the projectile vomiting, exploding diapers, endless crying, whining, screaming, and all the other nasty things that can happen when the angel child turns into a devil you have no idea.
And, as posted, the child who slept peacefully through a ten hour flight, may be crying the entire time on a different two hour flight. You just never know what you will get that day.
You have every right to fly in whatever class you choose. However, speaking from experience, you do not realize how tense and stressed you will be when your child is disturbing the other passengers in F. This makes baby more stressed and harder to calm down.
I personally hate seeing a small child/baby in business or first. I save my miles for a long time to be able to upgrade to these cabins and listening to a screaming child for hours kind of ruins the experience for me.
The fact that in F or B, you have a larger seat, etc., will not improve your flight experience when you are unable to eat/drink/use the bathroom, because you are taking care of an upset child. Personally, I would choose coach and get three seats together.
Just out of curiosity, are you also advocating that if a parent in economy class has a crying baby s/he be allowed to walk about the first class cabin as well?
1st class cabins are typically MUCH smaller than economy class. A person in 1st likely needs to walk into economy in order to have the distance/room necessary to soothe a crying baby. Economy by itself is large enough to do this so economy passengers don't have the excuse that they need the extra 20 feet in 1st to walk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6rugrats
The fact that in F or B, you have a larger seat, etc., will not improve your flight experience when you are unable to eat/drink/use the bathroom, because you are taking care of an upset child. Personally, I would choose coach and get three seats together.
I completely disagree. Sometimes babies just want to be held. It's very cramped in economy. In F or B, you have a lot more room to let the baby wiggle on your lap, along with all the toys and other crap that makes life easier on a traveling parent. Or, they can just play in the space in front of you. That may be all that's needed to keep that kid happy and quiet during the flight.
That said, I'm all in favor of the kid having their own seat. Not just for safety. Actually, safety is only a small part of why I think it's a good idea. The main reason is most kids calm way down when strapped into a car seat. You can save yourself hours of having to soothe/entertain your kid just by strapping him down in a car seat.
On a trans-ocean flight, you're almost certainly gonna hit the limits of how long the kid will sit quietly in a carseat at least once. However, I'll take however many hours of calm that seat will give me.
Are there alternatives to a third seat for a baby? For example, a Baby Bjorn, or some other such item that straps the baby to you? I know they're not meant as a replacement for proper restraints, but is it a decent compromise between lap-holding and purchasing their own seat?
The flights we'll be taking him on will be 3hrs or less.
Also, we expect quite an ordeal traveling with him--I don't think we've painted some rosy picture in our minds--but there are people in the family who cannot travel easily and it's important for them to meet the boy before it's too late. That means us going to them.
This leads me back to my OP. I'm interested in what makes traveling easiest for us. My regard for fellow pax takes a major backseat to our comfort and ease. Don't get me wrong here. We're conscientious people and will do what we can to avoid causing unnecessary waves--won't be changing the kid on the seat, stowing dirty diapers in the seat back, or simply turning up the sound on the iPod if he starts wailing--but not to our own detriment. I know it sounds harsh and pretty a-holish, but that's just how it is.
Well, if the flight is 3 hours or less, most parents have the stamina to soothe their children that long.
As for safety, no, there's no alternative. Baby Bjorn wouldn't work well cuz crash position would put your body in a position where it would crush baby. Those things aren't designed to hold a kid in during a crash (or bad turbulence). Plus, are you really gonna want to have baby in a BB for 3 hours? Just from a comfort standpoint.
I'd just do your original plan and hope the plane doesn't crash or experience real bad turbulence if you don't wanna buy an extra seat.
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My 3-YO son took his first flight when he was 3 1/2-month old and he has taken over 15 flights (including three 10+ hrs flights) since that first flight. Over 80% of these flights have been FC or BC with the first FC flight being when he was 3 1/2-month old.
My son has behaved perfectly on these flights. Someone can say that we have been lucky but we have done a lot of prep work to insure these results on these flights. When he was under 1, he slept for most of the flight except when he woke up for a feeding. At the end of every flight, the other FC passengers told us that they didn't know that we were traveling with an infant.
I fly every week for business for more than 10 years and I find adult FC passengers to be more annoying than infants in FC. How about drunken FC passengers? How about FC passengers who shout into their cell phones? How about FC passengers who want to talk to you when you don't? One time, I was on a 3 1/2-hour flight where the passenger next to me spent the whole flight trying to convince me to join Amway after I told him that I wasn't interested and I had work to do. How about FC passengers who can't talk without using the F-word or curse words? How about FC passengers who want to steal your FC seat since it is better? I can go on...
My young son will continue to fly FC and BC until the airlines incorporate a minimum age for a passenger in FC and BC.
Lol! Your stories have me in stitches!! That Amway guy especially! I'll take a crying baby over a loud, drunk adult passenger any day in any class!
Yes, most babies up in BC and FC do fine, especially under a year old. I think the customers up front complain faster just because they're more experienced fliers and they may be travelling under more pressing circumstances. I remember one gentleman asking me to "do something" about a crying baby in business, adding that he was walking off the flight, straight to a work meeting. These stories are fewer back in economy, with the large group of German tourists going to see the Grand Canyon...
Travel in the front of the plane might be less stressful on a "vacation destination" flight. Also around school holidays, you may find more families and fewer business people, although I used to get a lot buzzing home last minute after finishing work. At least they were looking forward to getting there and not going straight to work...
Just to clarify, FC and BC passengers are allowed to wander through economy but not the other way around. If your party is split, those up front can visit the back but not vise versa. Passengers up front who have had too much to drink will often go to the back of the plane to get more booze...
My daughter, now 20 months old, has been flying almost exclusively in First Class, all domestic, since she was a few months old.
Maybe we're just lucky with her, but I belive she's almost never been a disruption to the other First Class passengers. Success takes work, however. She demands lots of attention, which I give her from start to finish on every flight, including sitting on the floor in front of the seats (e.g. UA 777 domestic bulkhead) and playing with her. Whatever it takes.
I agree that it's your money and everyone else can kiss your a$$ -- yet you still want to be respectful of others. I interpret your comment as I implement it: it's my money and I'll fly in First if I want, meaning that I will not sit in Economy purely as a matter of principle to appease the PTravel's of the world (with all due respect, PTravel). But, at the same time, I will do whatever it takes to keep my child behaved and not disruptive. Of course, I abide by this rule of thumb in all public places -- first class on planes are nothing different.
The few times my daughter has cried on a flight, I walked her up and down the length of the plane to calm her down. I disagree with Davidwnc on this one: First class passengers should rightfully be allowed to use the Economy cabin for this purpose, but not vice versa. First, FC passengers have paid extra for the exclusivity, whereas Economy class passengers have not. Moreover, as others have pointed out, the Economy cabin is bigger, which makes it easier to calm the baby down by walking up and down the aisle.
I took the "kiss my A$$" comment to be directed at the "Kids shouldn't be ALLOWED there/Flight Attendant - Do something" types..
Look.. I'm a crusty old childless bachelor so you'd think I'd be like that.... but if you've paid to be upfront (with money/upgrade certs/Staff entitlement/whatever) then you have every right to be there with your kid(s)....
I would just ask that you make the effort to keep the little one happy and quiet.. that's all... just try! IME the vast majority of parents do the right thing... but as already pointed out sometimes not even the best efforts work...
Like many others here I am FAR more irritated by adults who are loud and annoying.. THEY should know better. Of course with adults one can actually take them to task... (I am not backward in doing that I assure you)
But, if the three of you are traveling in coach in three seats (and thus occupying the entire row), you may find that coach is not such an ordeal. This is especially true if you get a favorable row (although exit rows will not be possible).
I would certainly prefer 3 seats in a decent row in Y (with baby in a car seat) to 2 seats in F, even on longer flights. Don't forget that, even in F, your flight won't be all that relaxing when traveling with a baby.
Without a baby, it may be "all about the seat," but, with a baby, it's "all about the baby." Even if you have 3 seats in F (which is perfectly OK), the difference between Y and (C or) F is less if you are traveling with the baby than if you are without the baby.
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I have a 3 year old daughter. When we fly with her it is always in coach (mainly because I don't have enough miles to get all of us into First though also due to her behavior while flying). We have found that when we have a row of three together to ourselves that it generally works out the best.
On a recent business trip, flying solo, I was in first on a UA A319. A mother with two boys (one approx. 5 and the other < 2) was flying in first with them and her mother. The younger boy was a lap child. They were not able to control him and he cried or roamed the cabin most of the flight. This made it very unpleasant for everyone in first and was dangerous for the toddler (e.g. if we had any turbulence he could have been seriously injured since he wasn't properly anchored down while wondering on his own). As a parent, I know sometimes we have bad days with our kids, so I didn't complain at all. The mother looked pretty stressed out the whole trip and realized she had made a mistake (i.e. expecting two young boys to share a seat).
Back to your situation, with two parents and one child (especially one that isn't mobile yet), you should be able to control your child reasonably well. That said if they are having a bad day and crying a lot or if they have GI problems there won't be much you can do about that. So my recommendation is until you know how your kid will do flying, try getting a whole row for yourself in coach first. If your kid flies well than by all means go for First.
Either way as other posters have already noted, flying with young children changes everything. The flight becomes all about keeping your kid happy and entertained. Enjoying the amenities of the flight yourself is a distant second. My two cents....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Maiman
So my recommendation is until you know how your kid will do flying, try getting a whole row for yourself in coach first. If your kid flies well than by all means go for First.
I think that this is good advice especially for children between the ages of 2 to 5. However, for younger children like under the age of 1 especially under the age of 6 months this may not be the best advice since most children are still sleeping throughout the day. My son took four flights (outbound flights were 3.5 hours and return flights were 4 hours) before the age of 6 months and he probably was awake for 10 minutes per flight.
It is my recommendation to take a short-flight (i.e. 1 hr to 2 hrs) if it is possible before flying a long flight with toddlers. We have friends that took their 3-YO daughter on her first flight (10 hours long) and it was very miserable for them to say the very least.
Our boy is due on Thanksgiving Day. We need to fly him with us to multiple destinations during 2010 to visit family who can't fly. I'll keep Plat through Feb 2011, but I won't travel enough to keep it through 2012 as my travel with drop off drastically with the kiddo in the picture.
What are your thoughts on infants in First?
My wife thinks we should stay in coach to avoid disrupting the folks in first, but I'm of the opinion that the other pax can kiss my a$$: First allows us more room and a more comfortable ride.
For the responsible parents who don't change their baby on the seats, and who actually try to keep them quiet, am I just asking for trouble?
I would fly in first if you want to - you've paid for the seat. You also get better service, which helps. You can still enjoy the flight (eg have a meal) while your partner looks after the child, and then swap 1/2 way through, and the FAs will then server your partner their meal.
Our daughter has done over 50,000 miles on 43 flights (and she's not even 2 yet), and except for 4 of those flights, they have been in first (int/US domestic)/business class/premium economy, and it's only once been a problem once (when our flight was delayed, and we were worried about missing our connection, she picked up on that tension so we weren't popular at first, but she soon calmed down. another occassion her ears were hurting on landing, and we got a dirty look for a fellow passenger).
). But, at the same time, I will do whatever it takes to keep my child behaved and not disruptive. Of course, I abide by this rule of thumb in all public places -- first class on planes are nothing different. 
