Reports of increased stops of Westerners in certain Bangkok police jurisdictions
Dec 1, 2014, 8:11 am
#1
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Reports of increased stops of Westerners in certain Bangkok police jurisdictions
How serious of an issue is this?
Bangkok police accelerate random visitor urine tests, searches, interrogations on western tourists and expats (excerpts from post found at WoWasis Travel Blog):
Bangkok police accelerate random visitor urine tests, searches, interrogations on western tourists and expats (excerpts from post found at WoWasis Travel Blog):
In what appears to be a rapidly increasing policy of harassing western visitors and residents in Bangkok, such individuals are now regularly being stopped by Bangkok police, where they are interrogated, searched, and made to contribute urine samples.
Westerners are routinely stopped at random on the street, in taxicabs, and when traveling on motorcycle taxis. The stops are held day and night. When stopped, the individual is asked for identification, to empty the contents of pockets and purses for inspection, and a urine sample may be demanded as well, to be given and analyzed on the spot.
How common is this situation? Over the past few months, it has happened to numerous westerners living in Thailand, and has become a popular, if unwelcome topic of conversation.
Last edited by aBroadAbroad; Dec 9, 2014 at 12:57 pm Reason: Clarify title, add excerpts from linked blog so members do not have to follow link
Dec 1, 2014, 8:43 am
#2
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Dec 1, 2014, 8:47 am
#3
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Dec 1, 2014, 2:11 pm
#6
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NONSENSE!!!!
I spend 6 months or more a year in Bangkok have have done so for a couple of decades. I have worked there for a decade. I have dozens and dozens of western friends who live and work there or come there regularly for vacation.
Never heard of or seen this. Not even once.
Now, could it happen at a disco or KSR? Well, if you're spotted in an area where there is a known drug problem then it could be possible. Randomly stopped because you are in a taxi in Asoke? Doesn't happen.
Dec 1, 2014, 4:53 pm
#7
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As a resident of the Thong Lor area, I have never heard of anyone being stopped in a cab and extorted by police. Full stop. Many police make a living pulling cars over and collecting "fines" rather than writing tickets, but Bangkok isn't Tijuana where the cops target tourists!
The only place I've heard of random tests happening is on Soi Cowboy when the police were performing a targeted crackdown and "randomly" tested everyone on the street - this is hearsay as I did not witness it.
I've also seen people buy drugs on a beach and be immediately arrested by awaiting police officers. It's a scam on the islands. The locals told me the foreigner (if they're smart) pays the cops not to charge them, the cops then return the drugs to the dealer, and the setup is rinsed and repeated... Seriously, if you're going to do drugs, why do it in a country where it could carry such a severe penalty?
I seriously question the validity of the blog and note that the "story" in the Bangkok Post they link to is actually an Opinion Letter.
The only place I've heard of random tests happening is on Soi Cowboy when the police were performing a targeted crackdown and "randomly" tested everyone on the street - this is hearsay as I did not witness it.
I've also seen people buy drugs on a beach and be immediately arrested by awaiting police officers. It's a scam on the islands. The locals told me the foreigner (if they're smart) pays the cops not to charge them, the cops then return the drugs to the dealer, and the setup is rinsed and repeated... Seriously, if you're going to do drugs, why do it in a country where it could carry such a severe penalty?
I seriously question the validity of the blog and note that the "story" in the Bangkok Post they link to is actually an Opinion Letter.
Last edited by DirtyDan; Dec 1, 2014 at 5:03 pm
Dec 1, 2014, 5:10 pm
#8
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why would all of those people lie? I've certainly read about cops hassling people in the past to extort cash. We've all read about highway cops stopping farang and extorting cash. And I know I've read stories about them stopping pedestrians on trumped up littering charges in the past as well.
I'm not sure that these several reports point to widespread abuses. But to dismiss them out of hand?
I'm not sure that these several reports point to widespread abuses. But to dismiss them out of hand?
Dec 1, 2014, 6:22 pm
#9
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Yes, the link works now. I read the article. I have one response.
NONSENSE!!!!
I spend 6 months or more a year in Bangkok have have done so for a couple of decades. I have worked there for a decade. I have dozens and dozens of western friends who live and work there or come there regularly for vacation.
Never heard of or seen this. Not even once.
Now, could it happen at a disco or KSR? Well, if you're spotted in an area where there is a known drug problem then it could be possible. Randomly stopped because you are in a taxi in Asoke? Doesn't happen.
NONSENSE!!!!
I spend 6 months or more a year in Bangkok have have done so for a couple of decades. I have worked there for a decade. I have dozens and dozens of western friends who live and work there or come there regularly for vacation.
Never heard of or seen this. Not even once.
Now, could it happen at a disco or KSR? Well, if you're spotted in an area where there is a known drug problem then it could be possible. Randomly stopped because you are in a taxi in Asoke? Doesn't happen.
Dec 1, 2014, 6:45 pm
#10
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As with many things here it’s not a huge problem until you are personally affected.
Based on anecdotal information (foreign and Thai neighbors, Thai social media, first-hand observations, second-hand stories) it does appear as though there has been an increase in both tesakit and RTP shakedown “activities” targeting both locals and tourists.
There is speculation that much of the “normal” protection/shakedown racket income has been interrupted owing to a number unusual things going on right now in the Kingdom. Some of these cannot be discussed publicly. So there is more “freelance” activity which is required to generate income, and this is spilling over a bit more into the public eye.
I have noticed an increase in tesakit shakedowns; tesakit are Bangkok Metropolitan Authority (city) employees, a sort of sidewalk police (unarmed). Normally they make money shaking down street vendors, but since street vendors’ operating hours have been restricted to night-time, income is suffering. The typical shakedown is to catch a tourist littering and get them to pay 2,000 baht. Lately they’ve been stopping tourists, along with Royal Thai Police officers, to check for passports, visa, contraband; legal prescription drugs may be subject to arrest if you don’t have the prescription in hand. The RTP are also performing more sidewalk drug (urine) testing. And, the planting of small amounts of drugs on one’s person, belongings or vehicle, and subsequent shakedown, is a relatively common occurrence, if the tens of thousands of comments on Thai social media are to be believed.
Given the unusual political situation – and I’m not just referring to the military junta – it is a very challenging time to accurately gauge normal risks. Given the internal struggles, and there are more than just two factions fighting for control of the country, many of the normal controlling mechanisms have been let loose and its almost a more lawless place than ever before. (Thailand is a rule-by-law country, not a rule-of-law country, so in some ways it’s always been lawless.)
Personally I would discourage traveling to Thailand for tourism for the foreseeable future, given the many unknowns. But I understand that may not sound reasonable for everyone. So if you are here I would urge extra caution. Obviously avoid any/all illegal activities, do not consume illegal drugs, try to avoid the “entertainment zones” after 11 PM, stick to well-lit areas with a lot of people, carry a copy of your passport, arrivals card and entry stamp, carry at least 2,000 baht, in 100s/500s to facilitate extrication. If you are put in a situation and threatened with arrest, and a fine is mentioned, divide that request by 10, and do a bit of negotiating upwards, but not more than 25% of the original fine.
Based on anecdotal information (foreign and Thai neighbors, Thai social media, first-hand observations, second-hand stories) it does appear as though there has been an increase in both tesakit and RTP shakedown “activities” targeting both locals and tourists.
There is speculation that much of the “normal” protection/shakedown racket income has been interrupted owing to a number unusual things going on right now in the Kingdom. Some of these cannot be discussed publicly. So there is more “freelance” activity which is required to generate income, and this is spilling over a bit more into the public eye.
I have noticed an increase in tesakit shakedowns; tesakit are Bangkok Metropolitan Authority (city) employees, a sort of sidewalk police (unarmed). Normally they make money shaking down street vendors, but since street vendors’ operating hours have been restricted to night-time, income is suffering. The typical shakedown is to catch a tourist littering and get them to pay 2,000 baht. Lately they’ve been stopping tourists, along with Royal Thai Police officers, to check for passports, visa, contraband; legal prescription drugs may be subject to arrest if you don’t have the prescription in hand. The RTP are also performing more sidewalk drug (urine) testing. And, the planting of small amounts of drugs on one’s person, belongings or vehicle, and subsequent shakedown, is a relatively common occurrence, if the tens of thousands of comments on Thai social media are to be believed.
Given the unusual political situation – and I’m not just referring to the military junta – it is a very challenging time to accurately gauge normal risks. Given the internal struggles, and there are more than just two factions fighting for control of the country, many of the normal controlling mechanisms have been let loose and its almost a more lawless place than ever before. (Thailand is a rule-by-law country, not a rule-of-law country, so in some ways it’s always been lawless.)
Personally I would discourage traveling to Thailand for tourism for the foreseeable future, given the many unknowns. But I understand that may not sound reasonable for everyone. So if you are here I would urge extra caution. Obviously avoid any/all illegal activities, do not consume illegal drugs, try to avoid the “entertainment zones” after 11 PM, stick to well-lit areas with a lot of people, carry a copy of your passport, arrivals card and entry stamp, carry at least 2,000 baht, in 100s/500s to facilitate extrication. If you are put in a situation and threatened with arrest, and a fine is mentioned, divide that request by 10, and do a bit of negotiating upwards, but not more than 25% of the original fine.
Dec 1, 2014, 6:54 pm
#11
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As a resident of the Thong Lor area, I have never heard of anyone being stopped in a cab and extorted by police. Full stop. Many police make a living pulling cars over and collecting "fines" rather than writing tickets, but Bangkok isn't Tijuana where the cops target tourists!
The only place I've heard of random tests happening is on Soi Cowboy when the police were performing a targeted crackdown and "randomly" tested everyone on the street - this is hearsay as I did not witness it.
I've also seen people buy drugs on a beach and be immediately arrested by awaiting police officers. It's a scam on the islands. The locals told me the foreigner (if they're smart) pays the cops not to charge them, the cops then return the drugs to the dealer, and the setup is rinsed and repeated... Seriously, if you're going to do drugs, why do it in a country where it could carry such a severe penalty?
I seriously question the validity of the blog and note that the "story" in the Bangkok Post they link to is actually an Opinion Letter.
The only place I've heard of random tests happening is on Soi Cowboy when the police were performing a targeted crackdown and "randomly" tested everyone on the street - this is hearsay as I did not witness it.
I've also seen people buy drugs on a beach and be immediately arrested by awaiting police officers. It's a scam on the islands. The locals told me the foreigner (if they're smart) pays the cops not to charge them, the cops then return the drugs to the dealer, and the setup is rinsed and repeated... Seriously, if you're going to do drugs, why do it in a country where it could carry such a severe penalty?
I seriously question the validity of the blog and note that the "story" in the Bangkok Post they link to is actually an Opinion Letter.
There were a number of documented cases regarding smoking and putting out your cigarette on the sidewalk along Sukhumvit. Cops were demanding a 2,000 THB fine. Technically, they are correct. Although those who had to pay the fine weren't happy about it.
Dec 1, 2014, 7:01 pm
#12
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Hmm, this is all quite interesting and/or disconcerting. Every side of the story seems believable in one way or the other. This has all the makings of a good urban scare tale - except that there seems to be quite a growing body of evidence to support it.
Doesn't really make sense as to why the officials would want to kill the cash cow, though - enough word of this would scare of millions of $ in revenue, for what, a few thousand THB here and there? And, I'd imagine any law-abiding tourist who had this happen to them would run screaming to their embassy...and I'd think once those folks got wind of it, there would be travel advisories and all sorts of things put out.
Doesn't really make sense as to why the officials would want to kill the cash cow, though - enough word of this would scare of millions of $ in revenue, for what, a few thousand THB here and there? And, I'd imagine any law-abiding tourist who had this happen to them would run screaming to their embassy...and I'd think once those folks got wind of it, there would be travel advisories and all sorts of things put out.
Dec 1, 2014, 7:10 pm
#13
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"Doesn't really make sense as to why the officials would want to kill the cash cow, though..."
1.) 99.95% of the cash "buffalo" comes from Thais, and believe me, they already know about it.
2.) "Thainess" dictates that when revenue falls you increase prices.
3.) There will always be tourists, until there aren't.
4.) Embassies don't give a rats behind about this stuff.
5.) Martial Law (1914) is still in effect in the entire country.
6.) As we near the inevitable, things will get crazier and crazier.
Link to Thailand's Martial Law, which obviously gives the "authorities" (civil under the guidance of military) pretty much carte blanche: http://www.thailawforum.com/laws/Martial%20Law.pdf
1.) 99.95% of the cash "buffalo" comes from Thais, and believe me, they already know about it.
2.) "Thainess" dictates that when revenue falls you increase prices.
3.) There will always be tourists, until there aren't.
4.) Embassies don't give a rats behind about this stuff.
5.) Martial Law (1914) is still in effect in the entire country.
6.) As we near the inevitable, things will get crazier and crazier.
Link to Thailand's Martial Law, which obviously gives the "authorities" (civil under the guidance of military) pretty much carte blanche: http://www.thailawforum.com/laws/Martial%20Law.pdf
Last edited by transpac; Dec 1, 2014 at 7:34 pm
Dec 1, 2014, 8:52 pm
#14
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Yes, the link works now. I read the article. I have one response.
NONSENSE!!!!
I spend 6 months or more a year in Bangkok have have done so for a couple of decades. I have worked there for a decade. I have dozens and dozens of western friends who live and work there or come there regularly for vacation.
Never heard of or seen this. Not even once.
Now, could it happen at a disco or KSR? Well, if you're spotted in an area where there is a known drug problem then it could be possible. Randomly stopped because you are in a taxi in Asoke? Doesn't happen.
NONSENSE!!!!
I spend 6 months or more a year in Bangkok have have done so for a couple of decades. I have worked there for a decade. I have dozens and dozens of western friends who live and work there or come there regularly for vacation.
Never heard of or seen this. Not even once.
Now, could it happen at a disco or KSR? Well, if you're spotted in an area where there is a known drug problem then it could be possible. Randomly stopped because you are in a taxi in Asoke? Doesn't happen.
Dec 1, 2014, 10:43 pm
#15
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This is quite worrisome. I'm a huge fan of Bangkok and travel there often. I'm an avid traveller and don't succumb to hearsay, but at the same time have no desire to place myself in potentially uncomfortable situations. I'll be on vacation. No need to be on high alert. I think my week in Thailand over New Year's is about to be cancelled. Sad, as I do adore it, but also am not a fool.