Location: London (UK), Milano (IT), Wellington (NZ)
Programs: TG*G, LH SEN, AZ CFA
Posts: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by shirokuma66
I'm through with Thai. I simply wanted to point out that this "take it or leave it" attitude is not welcome in a customer service situation that was not the fault of the passenger, rather the carrier.
Just as a personal opinion, I believe that for TG this flight cancellation actually represents an emergency situation. This should be taken into consideration and the episode is hardly a "normal" example of the airline's attitude towards the customers.
Let's face it: the direct JFK-BKK flight has been closed, due to an unexpected crisis. This is certainly a flaw in the service and it's going to cause inconveniences, but at present time the airline can't offer a direct flight from JFK to BKK. Period.
Moreover, from what shirokuma66 tells, it doesn't appear that TG forced the passenger to "take or leave" a single option. On the contrary, they eventually offered to:
- Rebook on another carrier in Y, or
- Give a full refund
Other passengers have been rebooked via LAX in PE.
I always tend to enforce my rights, but let's be realistic; what did you expect them to do other than offer the above-mentioned solutions?
Print fake US dollars - since these days they are are short of the genuine stuff - to pay huge fares to rebook ALL PE passengers in another carrier's PE seats? (I'm sure that even in that case somebody would have been complaining, because XX airline PE seats have 0.5" less pitch than TG's)
Programs: Thai Gold, NZ Silver, QANTAS Club Bronze
Posts: 2,883
Quote:
How about a third option?
- Rebook in Y AND give a refund (fare difference between PE and regular Y)
Not as simple as it seems I think. Which Y do you mean? ie travel in economy, but which fare bucket? (Y/B/M/H/Q/...V/W) There are very big differences in fare classes and mileage earning rates in economy - full Y can be more than discount biz in some cases. I'm sure any airline is looking at this kind of problem one way - carry the pax in a class similar to that booked and at a similar cost to THAI to what its own internal costs would be (ie internally cost-neutral), OR provide a full refund.
For the 3rd option, how do you cost this? If only an expensive fare class(es) is available, there might be no refund, or a small refund that costs more to administer that it returns to the pax. Do you use the fare price/availability when the pax booked, or on the day of travel, or on the day of re-booking? I note too that some other have posted that the ANA alternative doesn't meet with their desired mileage earning requirements...and so the complications go on.
Technically, possible I guess - but unlikely as a practical solution IMHO.
How about a third option?
- Rebook in Y AND give a refund (fare difference between PE and regular Y).
I agree that this is the fairest accommodation for those have have already paid for PE seats - a far cry from some of the more heated demands for accommodation/compensation. As I recall, TG was charging $199 extra each way for PE on the JFK route, although they may have bumped it up a bit in the last couple of months.
Not as simple as it seems I think. Which Y do you mean? ie travel in economy, but which fare bucket? (Y/B/M/H/Q/...V/W)
For the 3rd option, how do you cost this?
Cheers, TK
This is very simple to cost: full fare PE - full fare Y - for the sector that you didn't get (e.g. BKK-JFK). This is how it's often calculated (from what I've read on FT).
I came back July 7 in Economy on ANA (Narita-JFK). I saw their premium economy seats--almost no legroom. I can't believe anyone would pay extra for those seats. They appear to have no more legroom than regular economy. Also, ANA seemed so dorky. I was sleeping for part of the flight. Then when we were landing, I wondered about the customs card. I tried to ask the flight attendant seated ahead of me (also with hand motions). She acted like she had no clue what I was talking about. Later she said they didn't have any more cards but I could get one when I was exiting.
They don't give any cards if you're sleeping. Other people didn't get cards. So I had the very enjoyable experience of filling one out while standing before getting to the immigration window.
After the JFK-BKK cancellation, they booked us JFK-LAX-BKK-LAX-JFK, Economy to and from LAX, but Premium Economy on LAX-BKK-LAX.
But now we're JFK-LAX on UA "economy restricted", which United is calling p.s. (for Premium Service), which means 34" pitch instead of 31". An extra 3" does not mean premium to me, but I'm not in marketing.
Then LAX-BKK on TG's A345. Is that trans-polar, or trans-pacific?
Coming home, BKK-CPH on TG in PE on some kind of 747, CPH-EWR on SAS in Economy Extra.
So you were right, greggoak2. In the email, TG told me "for our winter schedule (effective 26Oct08-07Mar09), routing BKK-LAX will be operated only economy class no more premium class due to change of the aircraft type"
Looks like A345s from LAX-BKK until Oct 26. That probably could still change.
Also, I had to go to UA's website to select seats for JFK-LAX, call SAS to select seats for CPH-JFK, and email TG for the rest.
But it's all showing up OK on checkmytrip.com.
The UA flight and arriving in EWR is not optimal, but we'll take it at this point.
Programs: CO Plat, AA Plat, HH Gold, *W Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 10,124
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkjay77
I very much doubt that UA will even try to open up award inventory on UA metal.
It's going off topic a little bit, but according to Mileage Plus Rules
Quote:
United shall have no liability for partner withdrawals from the Program or for award cancellations caused by partner withdrawals, discontinued United or partner service, or award or mileage accrual cancellations for any other reason. Partners may, in their discretion, change the amount of mileage required for their awards or impose other restrictions upon the use of their awards.
Apologies if this has been addressed already. I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is that your quote addresses "liability" meaning you can't hold them liable and sue for damages because you missed a meeting, had a pre-paid hotel room that you missed a night at, etc.
They still have to get you to your destination, as per the contract of carriage, and I imagine any court would agree.
We paid for premium economy. It is not my fault that their airline decided to cancel the flight and ruin a very detailed and complicated itinerary. Why should I be punished and downgraded by them when this whole fiasco was their own doing!?
Under basic contract law, Thai should be required to carry out their contract, and they should provide equivalent substitute transportation. Unfortunately, international air transportation law could complicate what a passenger is entitled to. This canceled flight issue is also arising as airlines start to cut their fall schedules. The problems arise with international service because the options are often limited. There will also be a chance that the flight you are re-routed to is canceled.
The flight is Trans-pac, but varies abit from flight to flight. On the way over 2 weeks ago, we flew down across China and into thailand. On the return flight yesterday, we flew up over Japan, and hung a right at Taiwan. The most turbulance I've ever experienced on this route.
BTW, I was originally scheduled to return on monday, but was moved to tues after they cancelled monday flights. When I checked in at BKK yesterday, they immediately upgraded me to Business from PE. Maybe an attempt at an "apology" for the cancelled flight? It was a nice way to enjoy my last LAX-BKK flight on Thai. Will have to take EVA to get PE in December (at a much higher price than thai PE)
I noticed that B 777-200LR has range of 10,840 miles. Isn't that enough for non-stop flights from USA to Bkk? Maybe the economies are better.
There was an article in Wall Street Journal on Tuesday July 8 (I think) about these long-haul flights being cancelled--and detailing about TG. It said those planes were basically "flying tankers" and consumed so much fuel just to carry fuel.
Also, I e-mailed TG for refund of half the extra I paid for Premium Economy (for the cancelled July 7 return flight). They wrote back that they're looking into my inquiry.
For me, the solution is very simple. I have tried to contact Thai Airways both via e-mail and snail mail and have received no response. My return booking on August 5 is in PE from BKK-LAX and the UA red-eye to JFK in economy. As Thai is not providing what I paid for (round trip ticket in PE from JFK-BKK-JFK), I am going to small claims court when I return. Thai Airways is subject to NY consumer laws.
I made my farewell flight this Tuesday on a paid PE ticket. I was sitting inmy seat waiting for the plane to take off from JFK when the attendant came along and upgraded me to C. What a great flight. Now I have to find a way back to JFK next month.
Don't you think they have already gone out of their way by upgrading you to Biz which is thousands of dollars more than the price difference btw Economy and PE? We are affected by this cancellation too and nobody likes this but you get a lot better deals than most of us.
ejross, perhaps while reading the NY consumer laws, you can also familiarize yourself with the concepts of waiver and estoppel. And just plain old fairness. Sue TG for the couple hundred bucks if you want. If it makes you happy. Don't think you'll get a lot of sympathy here.
