Thai Smile gets own AOC, IATA code (WE) and drops *A
Apr 6, 2014, 2:56 am
#47
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The next, and final segment if I can manage it, at this point is on April 21 and is domestic so unfortunately that won't offer much to go by.
Between TG Frown and UA's departure BKK is looking significantly less attractive as a *A hub for me.
Apr 6, 2014, 3:07 am
#48
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Yup, it does strike me as odd, then I think, well it is TG so...?
Some info posted on what appears to be their official Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/ThaiSmileFa...&stream_ref=10...cites April 10 as the WE start date, while maintaining TG codes.
Some info posted on what appears to be their official Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/ThaiSmileFa...&stream_ref=10...cites April 10 as the WE start date, while maintaining TG codes.
It cites April 10 as the start date for domestic... and if that's as far as it goes I'll be ambivalent to annoyed. The way it's stated however leaves the potential to still book at TG.
When this moves to international flights as well then I'll more than perturbed.
Prediction: MESS!
Apr 6, 2014, 8:56 am
#49
formerly known as 2lovelife
Join Date: Dec 2000
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If my city was edited out of the TG map, I'd be furious. In fact it would devalue my Star Alliance miles if I couldn't book award tickets to/from the cities that were once served by THAI.
And of course, the loss is huge when it comes to convenience. People have mentioned lounge access, priority checkin. But, 2 star benefits that I use often is critical, extra baggage allowance and Priority Standby. If they manage to be successful, I'd be worried about the elimination of all domestic routes and benefits. No Standby? No priority lanes? This is bad.
HUGE LOSS. I feel for those in these cities.
They want to be part of Star Alliance. But, they don't want to extend benefits. So they remove part of their route map to a "different carrier". It's legal, but pretty sneaky.
Now, I've flown Silk Air. And it was AWESOME. But, trying to change a few things on my ticket at SIN was impossible. You see, while they are still owned and part of the company, they have separated any mixed interactions between SQ/MI. They truly operate as separate companies.
Now, do you think that WE will separate themselves from TG. I doubt it. They will want to use the reservation systems, ground handling, ticketing systems, head offices, just as they have been doing since day 1. You see this connects to the claims of profitability.
In the linked CAPA article:
"But Mr Chokchai says Thai Smile’s break-even load factor on most international routes is only about 50%. As the carrier has focused in the international market on niche routes which command a premium yield, it does not need high load factors. The three routes suspended for the summer were examples of niche routes with good yields but demand is currently not sufficient to even cover the low break-even load factor."
A 50% breakeven load factor is shocking to me and unheard in the industry.
If that were true, it means that WE is pricing the route very high. In the current market environment with so many LCCs, that type of pricing cannot be viable.
"But Mr Chokchai says Thai Smile’s break-even load factor on most international routes is only about 50%. As the carrier has focused in the international market on niche routes which command a premium yield, it does not need high load factors. The three routes suspended for the summer were examples of niche routes with good yields but demand is currently not sufficient to even cover the low break-even load factor."
A 50% breakeven load factor is shocking to me and unheard in the industry.
If that were true, it means that WE is pricing the route very high. In the current market environment with so many LCCs, that type of pricing cannot be viable.
1) They hand picked all their routes, mostly routes with high loads already (CNX-HKT, BKK-CNX, etc) They didn't need to apply for any of the domestic or international routes like a new startup would have. It's just moving profitable parts of TG out to the new one to make themselves look like geniuses when even an idiot could manage this plan. Then if any routes are deemed unsuccessful, they just bounce then back to TG. Sounds pretty incestuous if you ask me.
2) They use TG's infrastructure, partners, and resources. Other than the planes and the uniforms, everything else is TG. TG reservation and ticketing (up until now that also included revenue streams from Star Alliance), ground handling, catering, busses, baggage facilities, and as I pointed out even their route map, airport contracts, etc. They basically rely on THAI 100%. I wonder how they allocate the expenses when they use these services.
I don't think they would have been successful if they had the capital costs of all the systems and had to build up their route system from scratch. How will they then manage these capital costs now? Surely many years of profits will have to be put on hold if they are to really operate a separate airline like Silk Air has done.
I understand all the fuss on this thread. Downplaying it is really insensitive to the flyers that will be affected.
In my opinion Thai Smile was a joke from the beginning. Looks like the joke was on us, quite sad indeed.
Apr 7, 2014, 11:19 am
#51
Join Date: Jul 2009
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well, I would wonder if they will use their own certificate for routes that lead abroad - it would affect TG's traffic rights to each country...
I think Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia and Thailand have implemented already a kind of Open Air policy which would permit any airline from any ASEAN member country to operate flights within member states, but between India and Thailand or better said: in India traffic rights play a very important role (and last not least think of the cronyism), and why should TG put its own traffic rights to DEL etc at risk just for enabling Smile to operate DEL-BKK by its own operational certificate? It would open doors to competitors and result in much pressure on Thai and Indian governments to grant more traffic rights to competitors.
I think Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia and Thailand have implemented already a kind of Open Air policy which would permit any airline from any ASEAN member country to operate flights within member states, but between India and Thailand or better said: in India traffic rights play a very important role (and last not least think of the cronyism), and why should TG put its own traffic rights to DEL etc at risk just for enabling Smile to operate DEL-BKK by its own operational certificate? It would open doors to competitors and result in much pressure on Thai and Indian governments to grant more traffic rights to competitors.
Apr 9, 2014, 11:25 pm
#52
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Don't you understand? How can they be profitable. It's playing with the expenses.
1) They hand picked all their routes, mostly routes with high loads already (CNX-HKT, BKK-CNX, etc) They didn't need to apply for any of the domestic or international routes like a new startup would have. It's just moving profitable parts of TG out to the new one to make themselves look like geniuses when even an idiot could manage this plan. Then if any routes are deemed unsuccessful, they just bounce then back to TG. Sounds pretty incestuous if you ask me.
2) They use TG's infrastructure, partners, and resources. Other than the planes and the uniforms, everything else is TG. TG reservation and ticketing (up until now that also included revenue streams from Star Alliance), ground handling, catering, busses, baggage facilities, and as I pointed out even their route map, airport contracts, etc. They basically rely on THAI 100%. I wonder how they allocate the expenses when they use these services.
I don't think they would have been successful if they had the capital costs of all the systems and had to build up their route system from scratch. How will they then manage these capital costs now? Surely many years of profits will have to be put on hold if they are to really operate a separate airline like Silk Air has done.
I understand all the fuss on this thread. Downplaying it is really insensitive to the flyers that will be affected.
In my opinion Thai Smile was a joke from the beginning. Looks like the joke was on us, quite sad indeed.
1) They hand picked all their routes, mostly routes with high loads already (CNX-HKT, BKK-CNX, etc) They didn't need to apply for any of the domestic or international routes like a new startup would have. It's just moving profitable parts of TG out to the new one to make themselves look like geniuses when even an idiot could manage this plan. Then if any routes are deemed unsuccessful, they just bounce then back to TG. Sounds pretty incestuous if you ask me.
2) They use TG's infrastructure, partners, and resources. Other than the planes and the uniforms, everything else is TG. TG reservation and ticketing (up until now that also included revenue streams from Star Alliance), ground handling, catering, busses, baggage facilities, and as I pointed out even their route map, airport contracts, etc. They basically rely on THAI 100%. I wonder how they allocate the expenses when they use these services.
I don't think they would have been successful if they had the capital costs of all the systems and had to build up their route system from scratch. How will they then manage these capital costs now? Surely many years of profits will have to be put on hold if they are to really operate a separate airline like Silk Air has done.
I understand all the fuss on this thread. Downplaying it is really insensitive to the flyers that will be affected.
In my opinion Thai Smile was a joke from the beginning. Looks like the joke was on us, quite sad indeed.
Rebrand, drop *A, promote Thai, push ROP.
Shortsighted from Thai Group, bad for all non-ROP *A, and in the long run also bad for Thai Group. Congratulations on diluting the Thaiairways brand, and also *A brand.
Not affected personally yet, but expect all flights to KKC to be WE soon. Sucks.
Apr 13, 2014, 11:49 am
#53
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: MileagePlus
Posts: 142
I see the *A logo at the front of the plane on their website, looks like they'll need to get out the black paint again:
Thanks TG for making up my mind not to fly Thai Smile.
.
Thanks TG for making up my mind not to fly Thai Smile.
.
Last edited by joban; Apr 13, 2014 at 11:55 am
Apr 15, 2014, 8:03 pm
#55
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Apr 15, 2014, 8:36 pm
#56
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[KVS Availability Tool 7.3.6/Diamond - Awards/AC-StarAlliance/CA]
Code:
BKK Bangkok Metro / Suvarnabhumi Intl TH = BKK DMK [VTBS] URT Surat Thani TH [VTSB] THU 01 May 2014 | 1 Seat Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability --------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ------------ TG/WE 2253 BKK 08:30 URT 09:45 32S 0 YS+ TG/WE 2255 BKK 17:45 URT 19:00 32S 0 CS+ YS+
Code:
BKK Bangkok Metro / Suvarnabhumi Intl TH = BKK DMK [VTBS]
KBV Krabi TH [VTSG]
SUN 01 Jun 2014 | 1 Seat
Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Availability
--------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ------------
TG 241 BKK 08:00 KBV 09:20 333 0 CS+ YS+
TG/WE 2243 BKK 11:05 KBV 12:25 32S 0 YS+
TG/WE 2251 BKK 14:30 KBV 15:50 32S 0 CS+ YS+
TG 249 BKK 16:40 KBV 18:00 333 0 CS+ YS+
Apr 16, 2014, 3:02 am
#58
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: VZ
Programs: M&M, ROP, KrisFlyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5khours View Post
It appears that you can no longer book WE award flights from the UA website. They show up, but you get an error when you try to book them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheresmybagba View Post
Thai Smile (domestic at least) doesn't show up at all now for LifeMiles awards.
As most of us who are discussing here are supposed to be ROP-members,
there wont be a big change for us when it comes to mileage accrual and award tickets use (but may be "priority status" for baggage handling)
Changes will be experienced mainly by other Star FQTV-members (but by far not so much by us!)
Originally Posted by 5khours View Post
It appears that you can no longer book WE award flights from the UA website. They show up, but you get an error when you try to book them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheresmybagba View Post
Thai Smile (domestic at least) doesn't show up at all now for LifeMiles awards.
As most of us who are discussing here are supposed to be ROP-members,
there wont be a big change for us when it comes to mileage accrual and award tickets use (but may be "priority status" for baggage handling)
Changes will be experienced mainly by other Star FQTV-members (but by far not so much by us!)
Apr 16, 2014, 5:43 am
#59
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As most of us who are discussing here are supposed to be ROP-members,
there wont be a big change for us when it comes to mileage accrual and award tickets use (but may be "priority status" for baggage handling)
Changes will be experienced mainly by other Star FQTV-members (but by far not so much by us!)
Apr 16, 2014, 8:16 am
#60
Join Date: Sep 2009
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