Talkboard Guidelines on Private Forum?
#31
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Bruce
#32
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Will all of the UNEDITED recent posts in the TB forum be made public do do you plan to make changes and deletions?
#33
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#34
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No kidding. This is getting a bit ridiculous/has jumped the shark.
Well he can't do so right away. There is a timeline & procedure involved with having discussions & doing motions.
As a former TB member I'm still offended by those who are implying that TB members have something to hide or are not being transparent because there is a private forum. That's BS. The purpose of the private forum was established over a decade ago by RandyPetersen for valid reasons. Those reasons are not less valid now just because some TBers are bickering with each other both in the private & the public forums.
I also think it's a bit strange to think that eliminating the private forum will help FTers see when TB is performing well & when it's dysfunctional. FTers see & determine that already in public discussions & motions/votes. Decisions made re: forums & whether those help Flyertalk in general to become a better travel bulletin board determines the effectiveness & success of TB.
Good grief - 3 of the 6 motions that have been voted on YTD have to do w/ TB internal procedures than w/ items that affect FT overall.
Quite frankly this entire thing has gotten out of hand because of some sniping between TB members during the last year & IMO the bickering hasn't benefited Flyertalk. And now we're getting into knee jerk reactions.
Also, the idea that eliminating the private forum is going to make a big difference come election time is naive IMO. The number of FTers who vote in the elections has gone steadily downward over the past few years (almost 75%), despite best efforts to publicize them & get people involved/vote. For the most part, unless it's something like the smoking forum or another 'hot topic', input by FTers in the public forum is minimal. You have the 'regulars' who follow it, but not much more. Those who do vote might or might not read the debate threads; most don't bother reading regular discussion threads. And some vote based on handles they recognize from forums they frequent, such as the airlines & hotel forums. That's not going to change.
Cheers.
As a former TB member I'm still offended by those who are implying that TB members have something to hide or are not being transparent because there is a private forum. That's BS. The purpose of the private forum was established over a decade ago by RandyPetersen for valid reasons. Those reasons are not less valid now just because some TBers are bickering with each other both in the private & the public forums.
I also think it's a bit strange to think that eliminating the private forum will help FTers see when TB is performing well & when it's dysfunctional. FTers see & determine that already in public discussions & motions/votes. Decisions made re: forums & whether those help Flyertalk in general to become a better travel bulletin board determines the effectiveness & success of TB.
Good grief - 3 of the 6 motions that have been voted on YTD have to do w/ TB internal procedures than w/ items that affect FT overall.
Quite frankly this entire thing has gotten out of hand because of some sniping between TB members during the last year & IMO the bickering hasn't benefited Flyertalk. And now we're getting into knee jerk reactions.
Also, the idea that eliminating the private forum is going to make a big difference come election time is naive IMO. The number of FTers who vote in the elections has gone steadily downward over the past few years (almost 75%), despite best efforts to publicize them & get people involved/vote. For the most part, unless it's something like the smoking forum or another 'hot topic', input by FTers in the public forum is minimal. You have the 'regulars' who follow it, but not much more. Those who do vote might or might not read the debate threads; most don't bother reading regular discussion threads. And some vote based on handles they recognize from forums they frequent, such as the airlines & hotel forums. That's not going to change.
Cheers.
#36
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As everyone here likely knows, I have been a passionate (to the point of obnoxious) advocate of making the private TB Forum read-only accessible to all for, I dunno, since the inception of the TB.
That proposal did not get much support...in fact I was told 'no way' by many of the fellow TB members.
I'm still in favor of either of these approaches. Transparency is almost always a GOOD thing.
And it sounds like this time I might not be the only one! @:-)
That proposal did not get much support...in fact I was told 'no way' by many of the fellow TB members.
I'm still in favor of either of these approaches. Transparency is almost always a GOOD thing.
And it sounds like this time I might not be the only one! @:-)
The most important reason for a private forum is transparency of TalkBoard discussions to other TalkBoard members. It should be obvious that if the only options become a public forum or Private Message, some of what was formerly posted in the private forum will move to PM.
Will every message be copied to every TB member? Even though the PM system limits us to 5 recipients? No.
Will future TB members be able to read PM exchanges? No.
This change carries unintended but highly predictable negative consequences.
I've made the same argument in the private forum before, but either people forgot, they disagree with my prediction, or they just don't care that it would harm the operation of TalkBoard.
#37
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I disagree with you. I would be happy to conduct TalkBoard business in public. Florida requires by law that all public business, and even HOAs, be open. My HOA cannot have a closed meeting except under extraordinary circumstances. Yet we muddle through somehow. And so would TalkBoard.
Bruce
Bruce
#38
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The most important reason for a private forum is transparency of TalkBoard discussions to other TalkBoard members. It should be obvious that if the only options become a public forum or Private Message, some of what was formerly posted in the private forum will move to PM.
Will every message be copied to every TB member? Even though the PM system limits us to 5 recipients? No.
Will future TB members be able to read PM exchanges? No.
This change carries unintended but highly predictable negative consequences.
I've made the same argument in the private forum before, but either people forgot, they disagree with my prediction, or they just don't care that it would harm the operation of TalkBoard.
Will every message be copied to every TB member? Even though the PM system limits us to 5 recipients? No.
Will future TB members be able to read PM exchanges? No.
This change carries unintended but highly predictable negative consequences.
I've made the same argument in the private forum before, but either people forgot, they disagree with my prediction, or they just don't care that it would harm the operation of TalkBoard.
I think it would also be inappropriate to make public the TB forum from previous years, when TB members posted with the understanding that this could be a private forum and don't currently have a vote.
#39
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I don't have a vote, but I'm in agreement with nsx, CMK10, and MSPEconomist on this one. BTW - I was in agreement back when I did serve on TB.
Cheers.
#40
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In addition to these arguments, my concern with opening the TB private forum is that a moderator can rewrite history without leaving any evidence of which posts have been edited or deleted. Other FT members can only edit their own posts, and doing so after IIRC ten minutes leaves a notice that the post was edited at a certain (most recent) time.
I think it would also be inappropriate to make public the TB forum from previous years, when TB members posted with the understanding that this could be a private forum and don't currently have a vote.
I think it would also be inappropriate to make public the TB forum from previous years, when TB members posted with the understanding that this could be a private forum and don't currently have a vote.
If TB chooses, the best way forward for public voting, etc. would probably be to establish dedicated threads or a sub-forum that would begin after TB chose to enact such rules for TalkBoard deliberation and voting.
/Moderator JDiver
Last edited by JDiver; Jul 10, 2015 at 9:19 am Reason: Add CD / Admin
#41
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I'm all for allowing someone to have enough time to study the issues, but at a certain point, they are hindering the forum.
I'm all for opening up TB discussions to FT members. There's nothing to hide, is there?
#42
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Nope. And the suggestion that moderators might rewrite history for some reason, leaving no trace (impossible), is entering the twilight zone.
Bruce
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#43
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I seriously doubt mods are going to rewrite private or public TB history.
The idea of opening up the private forum doesn't really make sense, for a variety of reasons as posted by nsx, CMK10, & MSP. But more importantly the motion/vote (if there was one & I would encourage TB members not to vote for it) would be to eliminate/archive the current private TB & just have a single public forum, not make both the private & the public public. What's the point of having two TB forums, both of which are public?
However, this continued thought that TB members are not being transparent or have something to hide just because there is a private TB is silly - and TB members who have served in the past & are currently serving know better.
I'm a bit disappointed in some who are posting, especially some who should be leading rather than gleefully jumping into the fray. And again I ask - how are the public spats benefiting Flyertalk in general & bettering it as a travel bulletin board? Maybe we should be happy that more FTers aren't aware of it because right now TB is not putting its best foot forward. Heck, I'm getting PMs from FTers who are either surprised at or are appalled by the bickering & asking me if this is the image TB wants to present to the rest of FT.
TB, when it's discussing the merits of suggestions by FTers & when motions come up for votes & pros/cons are debated, is at its best & proves it is worthwhile to keep. Yes, when there are 8 votes in & we're waiting on the final one, it can be irritating if the final vote doesn't come in until the end for no good reason (and I get quite irritated too) - but it's not the end of the world & to quote my friend koko, IJAIBB. If one wants to talk the dsyfunctional side of TB it's when personalities get involved & good points are overlooked because one TB member is irritated at another or just bangs on about the person rather than the idea or doesn't pay attention.
Also, given that Randy was the one who created both the private & the public TB forums & we have a new CD, has anyone asked her her thoughts or are you just going to make decisions for her?
Cheers.
The idea of opening up the private forum doesn't really make sense, for a variety of reasons as posted by nsx, CMK10, & MSP. But more importantly the motion/vote (if there was one & I would encourage TB members not to vote for it) would be to eliminate/archive the current private TB & just have a single public forum, not make both the private & the public public. What's the point of having two TB forums, both of which are public?
However, this continued thought that TB members are not being transparent or have something to hide just because there is a private TB is silly - and TB members who have served in the past & are currently serving know better.
I'm a bit disappointed in some who are posting, especially some who should be leading rather than gleefully jumping into the fray. And again I ask - how are the public spats benefiting Flyertalk in general & bettering it as a travel bulletin board? Maybe we should be happy that more FTers aren't aware of it because right now TB is not putting its best foot forward. Heck, I'm getting PMs from FTers who are either surprised at or are appalled by the bickering & asking me if this is the image TB wants to present to the rest of FT.
TB, when it's discussing the merits of suggestions by FTers & when motions come up for votes & pros/cons are debated, is at its best & proves it is worthwhile to keep. Yes, when there are 8 votes in & we're waiting on the final one, it can be irritating if the final vote doesn't come in until the end for no good reason (and I get quite irritated too) - but it's not the end of the world & to quote my friend koko, IJAIBB. If one wants to talk the dsyfunctional side of TB it's when personalities get involved & good points are overlooked because one TB member is irritated at another or just bangs on about the person rather than the idea or doesn't pay attention.
Also, given that Randy was the one who created both the private & the public TB forums & we have a new CD, has anyone asked her her thoughts or are you just going to make decisions for her?
Cheers.
#44
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I think we're kicking around an idea -- publicly.
Bruce
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#45
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Just as a point of information, moderators can not do that - every edit of every post is recorded and visible to moderators, so much as a wiki shows edits, so do posts. There is always evidence of edits / redactions / soft deletions. (We won't inquire just why a moderator would wish to do this?)
If TB chooses, the best way forward for public voting, etc. would probably be to establish dedicated threads or a sub-forum that would begin after TB chose to enact such rules for TalkBoard deliberation and voting.
/Moderator JDiver
If TB chooses, the best way forward for public voting, etc. would probably be to establish dedicated threads or a sub-forum that would begin after TB chose to enact such rules for TalkBoard deliberation and voting.
/Moderator JDiver