tcook052

Thanks Dov for providing exactly the perfect example of a topic that could be housed in the France destination forum.

Dovster

And get 50 responses telling me how horrible a person I am for smoking -- and that I am risking the lives of everyone whoever came within 5 miles of the airport.

So, no, I wouldn't make that post in the France forum and, as a result, never get my answer.

Canarsie

You are a horrible person for smoking.

49 to go...

...actually, I really did not mean to butt in after all.

tcook052

The familiar refrain offered without proof much like the usefulness of the Smokers Lounge.

Dovster

I believe the proof was provided by the various posts made in the two threads which discussed this issue -- and was provided not just by smokers citing posts in other forums but by non-smokers who posted here condemning it.

Indeed, as I recall, it was exactly the posts made here by the anti-smoking crowd which caused at least one TB member to vote in favor of establishing the forum.

tcook052

I recall a senior moderator offering their opinion that not only were the number of smoking threads in the forums they moderate tiny over the years but that while anti-smoker snark happened it wasn't happening all the time as is being inferred. It does seem that anecdotal evidence on traffic demand for the topic has been borne out.

Completely agree.

mia

At what point does Internet Brands and the Flyertalk community recognize that creating a forum, any forum, and then doing nearly nothing to publicize or promote it is a recipe for failure?

I don't believe that message velocity alone tells us much about the value of a forum, but if we want to increase participation in low volume forums we need to tell people that they exist, then remind, remind, remind. We need marketing. We have some tools, but they are used haphazardly.

MSPeconomist

What would you suggest beyond the customary community wide announcements of TB votes (after posts/threads mentioning the issue is relevant fora) and then of the new forum? I don't think people would want to see FT ads on FT.

CMK10

Dovster is a long time respected member of this site, he is THE person who asked for the forum and he just explained why it's useful. That's enough for me and it's certainly enough to rebut your repeated zealous clamoring to close forums. This forum IS helping Flyertalkers both directly and indirectly (leaving threads out of other forums where they invite heated responses) and it's not hurting anyone.

As far as I am concerned this forum stays open. But if anyone wants it closed I'm happy to mention there's an upcoming Talkboard election, please run.

tom911

I must have missed all those threads with heated responses, as they don't seem to be in the forums I frequent. I see those threads frequently referred to, but don't believe a single one was posted here to show support for the new forum. Where are all these threads? Surely there must be hundreds of them across all the forums of FT. When other forums are created members are tasked with showing the demand across other forums. Here, no such metric was provided.

How many of those "heated" threads had you read before you voted for this forum?

If the criteria for a new forum is that "it's not hurting anyone", pretty much any new forum request should be honored.

tcook052

Only if the request is made by a single long time respected member of this site as that's apparently all one TB member requires as enough reason to support forum creation.

mia

I mentioned some possibilities in THIS post. I think running a single System Wide Announcement is feeble. IB/FT need to promote individuals forums, regardless of when they were created, on a regular schedule through the multiple channels mentioned in my other post, and if IB has unsold advertising slots on FT that would also be a good use.

Doc Savage

I don't understand why there is such a rush to "tidy up" by deleting the smoking forum. I can see the utility of it for smokers as a place where the can quickly look for archived information about where smoking is allowed, rather than attempting searches of long, wandering threads for single posts containing that info. Have you ever tried FT search?


As an information archive, it WILL be a place where people check for the info, find it, and then leave without necessarily adding a post. How does having it there negatively effect in any way those who don't smoke?

And this comes from a guy who urges about 15 people a day to quit smoking.

cblaisd

Well-put on all counts.

And why this animus about the forum (or any forum that is allegedly "underperforming" [sic], and why the continuing desire to use only one very blunt-instrument quantitative metric when other more intangible but important factors -- like the ones you cite, or I cite upstream -- ought to also be considered?

bdschobel

I totally agree. First of all, this is merely rehashing the exact same debate that we had about opening the forum. Nobody is making any new points. We already had the debate and the vote. Let's all accept the outcome and move on.

Secondly, as long as we're all repeating ourselves, I may as well do the same: Is the internet getting too crowded? Are we running out of room? Do we need to eliminate certain things to make room for other things? No? Well, then, let's just leave the smokers' forum alone and move on to other matters.

Thirdly, as CMK10 mentioned earlier, another TalkBoard election is imminent. People who HATE the smokers' forum should run on a platform of closing it and see what happens. Maybe they'll get elected and can carry out their mission. But they won't get my vote.

Bruce