MSPeconomist

Yes, apparently nonsmokers will be able to read the Smoking Section forum. [I think it's highly unlikely that FT members will be forced to certify that they smoke to gain access.]

However, will they be permitted to actively post? For example, would I be allowed to start a thread to ask "What hotel chains forbid smoking in all indoor areas worldwide?"

I've been saying all along that a smokers' forum could also be very helpful to nonsmokers who are especially sensitive, etc. to second hand smoke, but no one wants discuss how to clearly define the scope of the new forum beyond the assumption that proselytizing will not be allowed.

My stance is that I strongly want to see a precisely written formal motion before voting proceeds. While I understand that TB's rule is advisory only and can always be overruled by the CD or IB (including on legal issues), IMO we're not as useful as we can be when we pass motions that are merely vague ideas and don't consider the details of what we're suggesting. We'd be more effective if we were to work out the details rather than leaving it to the CD to decide if, when, and how to implement our recommendations.

zpaul

In favor.

Dovster

Of course they would be allowed to post -- as long as it is on topic and asking where smoking is allowed and where it is not is very much the topic of the forum.

If you did ask that question, and you received answers, it would not only help you avoid smoke but also help smokers save time by narrowing their search for hotels.

MSPeconomist

"Discussion of Travel issues for Travelers who Smoke, Chew or Vape" is the proposed subtitle for the forum. To me, this doesn't at all say that nonsmokers/non chewers/nonvapers will be welcome to post here even though we're travelers. At best, this description leaves the decision of whether my hypothetical "which chains forbid all indoor smoking" would be allowed up to whoever is appointed to moderate the forum. However, a literal reading of the words bolded above (part of the formal motion, taken from the OP in this thread, bold added) would suggest that the intent is that nonsmokers would not be welcome to actively participate in discussions or ask questions, even though we probably cannot be prevented from reading the Smoking Section forum.

SkiAdcock

Well given there is a motion & voting is underway, perhaps that should have been done before? But since you want a detailed description, perhaps you & Dovster can extend the forum description a bit/provide input to the CD.

Cheers.

Dovster

I am heterosexual but I have posted in the GLBT forum. I am not particularly religious but I have posted in the Religious Travelers forum. I am male but I have posted in the Women Travelers forum.

It is the content of the post which makes it acceptable or unacceptable -- not the poster.

bdschobel

You don't just want this, you "strongly want" it! Whew.

We have "a precisely written formal motion" right now, and voting is under way, as everyone here knows. Your job now is to vote on that motion, not lecture us about our drafting abilities -- or lack thereof. We're waiting.

Bruce

nsx

Right. Hypothetically, if I were moderating the forum, I would allow a wide range of post subjects unless and until certain subjects proved to consistently spiral out of control. That's why TalkBoard can't answer MSP's question definitively: we don't know how it will actually work out.

bdschobel

And every single hypothetical question need not be answered in advance, contrary to MSP's apparent desire.

This process is not like an execution, where you better get it right the first time! FlyerTalk has lots of opportunities to tweak its forum structure and rules. That's far better than paralysis.

Bruce

Jane42

I don't believe I have ever asked a "smoking" question before - for the exact reason that has been stated on here. I am reluctant to start a "you should not smoke" thread.

I would truly appreciate a Smoking Section that would allow me to ask questions re hotels, airports, etc.

SkiAdcock

I know the TB members appreciate your input, and Dovster hopes you & others will actively participate in the forum if it's created.

Cheers.

Dovster

The whole idea of this forum is to exchange information which will be helpful to smokers who travel. Any post which does that should be welcome, even if it made by a non-smoker who wants to know what places to avoid.

That said, how the non-smoker words the post could well make it unacceptable. This is, after all, a proposed forum for a place where smokers can exchange information without being insulted or lectured to by non-smokers.

Hence, "What hotel chains worldwide do not allow smoking at all?" would be fine. It would be of interest to smokers and it would help us when looking for hotels. On the other hand, "What hotel chains worldwide do not allow smoking at all? I want to know so I can be certain that I won't have to suffer the stink of smoke or of smokers" would, IMHO, be objectionable and whoever moderates the forum should remove it.

Let me compare this to two theoretical posts in the Women's Travelers Forum. If someone, male or female, were to post "I am going to Israel this summer and want to know if there are any beaches where women are allowed to be topless" I would see no problem with that. Many women enjoy going to topless beaches.

On the other hand, if a man were to post "I am going to Israel this summer and want to know if there are any beaches where women are allowed to be topless because I really enjoy looking at naked boobs" I would imagine that the mods of that forum would not only remove the post but very possibly the poster as well.

kokonutz

I don't seek your un-givable TB vote. I seek the substantial weight of a Dovster endorsement!!!! I need a kingmaker. The kind of guy who can successfully create a forum for the most openly loathed people in the world: smokers. Ifyou can do it for them, you can do it for the second most loathed Minority in the world: men!

As for being 'on Lake Como, I suppse if you need to be pedantic I was on a dock that was floating on lake como. God knows I'm no Jesus.

Anyway.

Lest anyone think I am actually selling my TB vote, I voted in favor of this forum before I posted here.

Happy Independence Day, all you stinky, smelly smokers! Enjoy your forum!

And, Dov, you're welcome! And Viva la men's travel forum!!!!!!!

Kagehitokiri

avoiding smoking is not anti smoking, and helps smokers know where they need to avoid going, if they wont be allowed to smoke there

anti - LGBT / women / children / religion are presumably not allowed in forums
so anti - smoking would presumably not be allowed if that forum opens
its really that simple, isnt it? isnt that the whole point of these forums?

if smokers wanted to discuss quitting, gum, vaping, or which gum/vaping are 'healthiest' etc, that would be up to them to start threads (and isnt "anti")

i know some FTers who smoke cigars at hotels/resorts
i might start such a cigar thread if forum opens
especially hotel cigar lounges / selling cigars / etc
i know some existing threads along those lines

MSPeconomist

I'm surprised that there isn't such a thread in Luxury Hotels as many upscale international properties either have cigar bars or have bars that permit cigars and might even sell some (but wouldn't have a large selection).