Mar 13, 2015, 10:14 am
Last edit by: JDiver
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On March 12, 2015, TalkBoard passed by a 6-3 vote the following amended motion:
Voting yes: bdschobel, CMK10, dchristiva, jason8612, kokonutz, nsx
Voting no: Canarsie, MSPeconomist, rwoman
(lower right wiki corner)On March 12, 2015, TalkBoard passed by a 6-3 vote the following amended motion:
Originally Posted by Amended Motion
TalkBoard recommends the following restructuring of car rental forums:
1. "Car Rental Programs/Partners" heading to remain the same
2. Add a new forum at the top of the list titled "Rental Car Discussion" and subtitled "General Topics, plus Alamo, Budget, Enterprise, Dollar, and Thrifty"
3. Retain these four separate forums:
Avis | Preferred
Hertz | Gold Plus Rewards
National | Emerald Club
Sixt |
4. Close these four forums:
Budget | Fastbreak
Dollar | Express Renter Rewards
Thrifty | Blue Chip Rewards
Other Car Rental Programs (i.e., Alamo, Enterprise)
5. Move all threads from the four closed forums into the new "Rental Car Discussion" forum
6. TalkBoard prefers that the threads moved from closing the Dollar, Budget, and Thrifty forums be identified somehow in the new, general "Rental Car Discussion" forum. That identification could use tags like are used for Hotel Reviews in the Luxury Hotels forum; an appropriate prefix could be added to each thread title; or some other way could be used to identify the former homes of these threads. If such identification is feasible within the next four months or so, we favor delaying the forum merger until the identification task is completed.
1. "Car Rental Programs/Partners" heading to remain the same
2. Add a new forum at the top of the list titled "Rental Car Discussion" and subtitled "General Topics, plus Alamo, Budget, Enterprise, Dollar, and Thrifty"
3. Retain these four separate forums:
Avis | Preferred
Hertz | Gold Plus Rewards
National | Emerald Club
Sixt |
4. Close these four forums:
Budget | Fastbreak
Dollar | Express Renter Rewards
Thrifty | Blue Chip Rewards
Other Car Rental Programs (i.e., Alamo, Enterprise)
5. Move all threads from the four closed forums into the new "Rental Car Discussion" forum
6. TalkBoard prefers that the threads moved from closing the Dollar, Budget, and Thrifty forums be identified somehow in the new, general "Rental Car Discussion" forum. That identification could use tags like are used for Hotel Reviews in the Luxury Hotels forum; an appropriate prefix could be added to each thread title; or some other way could be used to identify the former homes of these threads. If such identification is feasible within the next four months or so, we favor delaying the forum merger until the identification task is completed.
Voting no: Canarsie, MSPeconomist, rwoman
Motion Passed, Voting Over: Restructuring of the Car Rental Forums
Feb 25, 2015, 1:58 pm
#16
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Miami, FL
Programs: UA 1MM, AA Plat, Marriott LT Titanium, Hyatt Glob, IHG ♢ Amb, Hilton ♢, Hertz Pres
Posts: 6,016
I think Budget should retain it's own thread along with the others you mentioned keeping and then put the remainder into the general bucket.
Feb 25, 2015, 2:04 pm
#17
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Durham, NC (RDU/GSO/CLT)
Programs: AA EXP/MM, DL GM, UA Platinum, HH DIA, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 33,857
I disagree. The first page of the forum has threads dating back to mid-December of last year. That's not the kind of traffic that requires its own forum.
Feb 25, 2015, 6:23 pm
#18
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,030
Yeah you requested numbers, I said if you were interested in seeing numbers perhaps you could look them up yourself, you neglected to do so. I also made a list in the public forum of how many threads were in each of the lesser used forums and from when the last thread on the first page was.
I believe the TB President has already told you to stop quoting Robert's Rule of Order. This does not have to be so complicated, we aren't the Canadian Parliament. There's no reason to withdraw the first motion when the TB President himself oversaw the editing of it into a new motion.
I believe the TB President has already told you to stop quoting Robert's Rule of Order. This does not have to be so complicated, we aren't the Canadian Parliament. There's no reason to withdraw the first motion when the TB President himself oversaw the editing of it into a new motion.
Feb 26, 2015, 1:14 am
#19
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend, Moderator, Information Desk, Ambassador, Alaska Airlines
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: FAI
Programs: AS MVP Gold100K, AS 1MM, Maika`i Card, AGR, HH Gold, Hertz PC, Marriott Titanium LTG, CO, 7H, BA, 8E
Posts: 42,953
This would help with some of the threads in the Information Desk we get- as there is not a general area for rental queries.
Of course that is one potential issue with such a forum- lots of price requests. Its ok- we can always refer them to certain companies
Of course that is one potential issue with such a forum- lots of price requests. Its ok- we can always refer them to certain companies
Feb 26, 2015, 10:09 am
#20
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,362
It's not just that it's irreversible, it would be like taking all of the slow circulating periodicals in a library and dumping them in a pile in the basement. FlyerTalk is not just about current discussions, it is also a library of information that members should be able to find and read as easily as possible. Less popular material is still useful if we can find it.
Feb 26, 2015, 11:22 am
#21
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,369
I agree. I wonder, though, whether it would be possible to have an automated process to add a "Budget"/ "Dollar"/etc... prefix to the threads from the fora subject to closure (as well as enable thread prefixes for these for new posts). This would have the side advantage of nudging posters towards using thread prefixes, which would be useful in a relatively heterogeneous forum.
Would you also envision a "General Rental Car Topics" maybe abbreviated as "General" prefix in the drop down menu or just no prefix if the thread isn't about a single rental car company/program?
Feb 26, 2015, 8:31 pm
#22
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,443
Feb 26, 2015, 9:55 pm
#23
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Durham, NC (RDU/GSO/CLT)
Programs: AA EXP/MM, DL GM, UA Platinum, HH DIA, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 33,857
Oh no I wasn't, I was implying they were an important governmental body serving a whole country and we're 9 people who spend far too much time on the internet arguing about how best to change forums that often go unused for weeks at a time around.
Feb 26, 2015, 11:15 pm
#24
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 2002
Location: YEG
Programs: HH Silver
Posts: 56,443
Feb 27, 2015, 11:19 am
#25
Senior Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: UA Plat/2MM [23-yr. 1K, now emeritus] clawing way back to WN-A List; MR LT Titanium; HY Whateverist.
Posts: 12,396
I'm pleased that the TalkBoard is actively working on this topic.
My suggestions are to keep the general rental car discussion forum limited to that general discussion and separate it from discussion of the specific smaller rental companies proposed.
Re what should go together with National, I'd prefer to limit to Alamo and National. While Enterprise has the same ultimate ownership, as other members have noted, the Enterprise business focus and issues are quite different than National and Alamo.
Finally, we are seeing many more threads in TravelBuzz on hired-driver automobile transportation services: taxis, app-based services (Lyft, Sidecar, Uber, etc.) and limos. I'd like to suggest that this whole area of hired-driver services may now deserve its own space on FlyerTalk, with forum divisions as might be apt.
My suggestions are to keep the general rental car discussion forum limited to that general discussion and separate it from discussion of the specific smaller rental companies proposed.
Re what should go together with National, I'd prefer to limit to Alamo and National. While Enterprise has the same ultimate ownership, as other members have noted, the Enterprise business focus and issues are quite different than National and Alamo.
Finally, we are seeing many more threads in TravelBuzz on hired-driver automobile transportation services: taxis, app-based services (Lyft, Sidecar, Uber, etc.) and limos. I'd like to suggest that this whole area of hired-driver services may now deserve its own space on FlyerTalk, with forum divisions as might be apt.
Feb 27, 2015, 11:42 am
#26
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,369
I'm pleased that the TalkBoard is actively working on this topic.
My suggestions are to keep the general rental car discussion forum limited to that general discussion and separate it from discussion of the specific smaller rental companies proposed.
Re what should go together with National, I'd prefer to limit to Alamo and National. While Enterprise has the same ultimate ownership, as other members have noted, the Enterprise business focus and issues are quite different than National and Alamo.
Finally, we are seeing many more threads in TravelBuzz on hired-driver automobile transportation services: taxis, app-based services (Lyft, Sidecar, Uber, etc.) and limos. I'd like to suggest that this whole area of hired-driver services may now deserve its own space on FlyerTalk, with forum divisions as might be apt.
My suggestions are to keep the general rental car discussion forum limited to that general discussion and separate it from discussion of the specific smaller rental companies proposed.
Re what should go together with National, I'd prefer to limit to Alamo and National. While Enterprise has the same ultimate ownership, as other members have noted, the Enterprise business focus and issues are quite different than National and Alamo.
Finally, we are seeing many more threads in TravelBuzz on hired-driver automobile transportation services: taxis, app-based services (Lyft, Sidecar, Uber, etc.) and limos. I'd like to suggest that this whole area of hired-driver services may now deserve its own space on FlyerTalk, with forum divisions as might be apt.
Feb 27, 2015, 11:52 am
#27
Senior Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: UA Plat/2MM [23-yr. 1K, now emeritus] clawing way back to WN-A List; MR LT Titanium; HY Whateverist.
Posts: 12,396
Good point, but it might be more effective to suggest a hired driver forum in its own separate thread. This isn't something that can or should be considered as part of the rental car forum reorganization which is the subject of the current vote, although it might be fun to watch what would happen if someone proposes a friendly amendment on this proposal. Ultimately I fear that your suggestion will be overlooked here if it remains as part of this thread.
, but it popped up as a related need.
Feb 27, 2015, 11:57 am
#28
Moderator: National Car
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SE MI
Programs: Delta PM, National EE, Hertz PC, Hilton DM
Posts: 2,168
Forgive me as it's hard for me to figure out exactly what is going to be deleted/moved around given all of the noise in here. I am fine with the amendment as stated in the first post, but now I am confused.
As an initial matter, while I realize there is limited traffic in many of these forums, I wonder what exactly is prompting this sudden deletion of these sub forums. Is FT tight on server space or something? As my fellow moderator tcook052 aptly noted, just because a forum does not have a ton of posting activity does not mean it is not viewed, searched, or otherwise accessed by FT users and guests, and this could be handled by other, less drastic means.
Notwithstanding that, and, to the extent this discussion involves a move towards rental companies being grouped by "parent" company, my $.02 as moderator of the National forum is please don't.
The whole point of parents having different brands is to cater to different demands and customer bases. Our main traffic in National is business travelers, which makes sense given that National primarily markets itself to that group. Alamo is geared more towards leisure travelers and Enterprise the replacements market/neighborhood presence. Avis is the upmarket equivalent of Budget. Etc. (Gross generalizations I realize, but bear with me.)
Simply put, I believe it would be profoundly distracting for all of us active posters/moderators to start having to field questions from renters on other brands just because they happen to be owned by the same parent company. Given what is often a wide disparity in loyalty program mechanics and other policy differences, frankly many of the answers which would be sought would not even be well known, so in essence information would be harder to get. For instance, most of the posters in my forum are not Alamo or Enterprise experts. I think that runs counter to the stated goal here.
tl;dr, this seems like an answer to a question no one asked, but I am open to being convinced otherwise.
As an initial matter, while I realize there is limited traffic in many of these forums, I wonder what exactly is prompting this sudden deletion of these sub forums. Is FT tight on server space or something? As my fellow moderator tcook052 aptly noted, just because a forum does not have a ton of posting activity does not mean it is not viewed, searched, or otherwise accessed by FT users and guests, and this could be handled by other, less drastic means.
Notwithstanding that, and, to the extent this discussion involves a move towards rental companies being grouped by "parent" company, my $.02 as moderator of the National forum is please don't.
The whole point of parents having different brands is to cater to different demands and customer bases. Our main traffic in National is business travelers, which makes sense given that National primarily markets itself to that group. Alamo is geared more towards leisure travelers and Enterprise the replacements market/neighborhood presence. Avis is the upmarket equivalent of Budget. Etc. (Gross generalizations I realize, but bear with me.)
Simply put, I believe it would be profoundly distracting for all of us active posters/moderators to start having to field questions from renters on other brands just because they happen to be owned by the same parent company. Given what is often a wide disparity in loyalty program mechanics and other policy differences, frankly many of the answers which would be sought would not even be well known, so in essence information would be harder to get. For instance, most of the posters in my forum are not Alamo or Enterprise experts. I think that runs counter to the stated goal here.
tl;dr, this seems like an answer to a question no one asked, but I am open to being convinced otherwise.
Feb 27, 2015, 8:04 pm
#29
Join Date: May 2006
Location: BOS and ...
Programs: UA 2MM, AA 600k, DL 500k, Hyatt GP 1M, HH Gold, Rad. Gold, CP Gold, Miracle Fruit-su Club
Posts: 9,950
I have long wished for a common thread at the top of the Car Rental Programs | Partners category for comparison discussions. At least this would be a strong, uncomplicated forum going forward - if such is possible. While I know that the omnibus "bill" already has been vetted to go forward in toto, I submit that it has enough facets that have their own pros and cons that it complicates each of the facets to have them together. Thanks for listening.
Feb 28, 2015, 1:16 pm
#30
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Delta - Gold; Starwood - Platinum; HHonors - Diamond & Avis Preferred
Posts: 10,869
Many of the threads in these forums do not mention the name of the car rental company or program in the title. If all of these threads are dumped into a common forum it will be more difficult to locate information by browsing or searching. It would be better to close the forums, leave most of the threads in place, and manually re-title and move only those with recent activity to the top forum.
Edited to add suggestion:
Edited to add suggestion:
- Close the Budget, Dollar, Thrifty, Other forums, with their messages intact.
- Move those four forums with messages to become locked subforums for the new Rental Car Discussion forum.
- Manually re-title and move into the Rental Car Discussion forum only those threads with activity in 2015.
Personally I like the idea of grouping by parent company... Avis/Budget, Hertz/Advantage/Dollar/Thrifty, Enterprise/Alamo/National. At many airports, these companies share fleets, customer service reps, etc. Personally, I frequent the car rental forums because I want to understand which company to use in a particular city since the quality of fleets and customer service varies so widely inside each of the brands.
Or, why not just compromise and have a brand new 'General Rental Car Discussion' forum, and then three sub-forums for each of the major brands (like we do with the AA parent forum and the legacy AAdvantage/Dividend Miles forums).
Or, why not just compromise and have a brand new 'General Rental Car Discussion' forum, and then three sub-forums for each of the major brands (like we do with the AA parent forum and the legacy AAdvantage/Dividend Miles forums).
^^