Close the Information desk forum
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
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if name of forum could be better, do those who want it closed have thoughts on "good" name?
#47
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador: World of Hyatt
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Hey, you can't close it. Where would I go for my laugh of the day?
Seriously, most of those people read on a blog that they could travel for "free" and don't even know where to start or what to ask. Some are completely clueless - all they know is they want to travel for free.
I never thought the forum belong on FT to start with, and as the credit card deals go away, and the MS dries up more than it already has, I suspect it won't be nearly as busy.
ETA: Just today someone posted asking for a FTer to spread some holiday joy and assist him getting from his school to another city during the holiday break. Seriously? Is this what we want to encourage? IMHO, he was looking for a freebie, not advice.
Seriously, most of those people read on a blog that they could travel for "free" and don't even know where to start or what to ask. Some are completely clueless - all they know is they want to travel for free.
I never thought the forum belong on FT to start with, and as the credit card deals go away, and the MS dries up more than it already has, I suspect it won't be nearly as busy.
ETA: Just today someone posted asking for a FTer to spread some holiday joy and assist him getting from his school to another city during the holiday break. Seriously? Is this what we want to encourage? IMHO, he was looking for a freebie, not advice.
Last edited by Mary2e; Dec 4, 2014 at 9:31 am
#48
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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FlyerTalk can be rather intimidating to use especially to new members.
I agree with you that members should not be conditioned to become lazy my words in terms of where to properly post topics on FlyerTalk. I easily know where to post what on FlyerTalk; and I surmise that you do as well...
...but the primary purpose of the Information Desk forum is to welcome new members who might otherwise be too intimidated to post a question elsewhere on FlyerTalk; and they need a place to shall we say get their feet wet and become more familiar with the structure of FlyerTalk. The Information Desk forum seems to be a great place to start along with the helpful moderators and members who regularly participate in that forum, volunteering their free time to assist fellow members of FlyerTalk.
Anyone who can think of a better way than the current Information Desk forum to acclimate new members to FlyerTalk is certainly welcome to post their thoughts here.
I agree with you that members should not be conditioned to become lazy my words in terms of where to properly post topics on FlyerTalk. I easily know where to post what on FlyerTalk; and I surmise that you do as well...
...but the primary purpose of the Information Desk forum is to welcome new members who might otherwise be too intimidated to post a question elsewhere on FlyerTalk; and they need a place to shall we say get their feet wet and become more familiar with the structure of FlyerTalk. The Information Desk forum seems to be a great place to start along with the helpful moderators and members who regularly participate in that forum, volunteering their free time to assist fellow members of FlyerTalk.
Anyone who can think of a better way than the current Information Desk forum to acclimate new members to FlyerTalk is certainly welcome to post their thoughts here.
I'd add that we shouldn't let the enemy be the perfect of the good. No forum is perfect, and by its very nature this one is will have its excess baggage. But it's still a very useful service that helps build and maintain FT as a community.
#49
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Hey, you can't close it. Where would I go for my laugh of the day?
Seriously, most of those people read on a blog that they could travel for "free" and don't even know where to start or what to ask. Some are completely clueless - all they know is they want to travel for free.
I never thought the forum belong on FT to start with, and as the credit card deals go away, and the MS dries up more than it already has, I suspect it won't be nearly as busy.
ETA: Just today someone posted asking for a FTer to spread some holiday joy and assist him getting from his school to another city during the holiday break. Seriously? Is this what we want to encourage? IMHO, he was looking for a freebie, not advice.
Seriously, most of those people read on a blog that they could travel for "free" and don't even know where to start or what to ask. Some are completely clueless - all they know is they want to travel for free.
I never thought the forum belong on FT to start with, and as the credit card deals go away, and the MS dries up more than it already has, I suspect it won't be nearly as busy.
ETA: Just today someone posted asking for a FTer to spread some holiday joy and assist him getting from his school to another city during the holiday break. Seriously? Is this what we want to encourage? IMHO, he was looking for a freebie, not advice.
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Posts: 18,323
Just give me mod powers. Considering I'm practically on FT 24/7. That will keep the riff raff out.
#51
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador: World of Hyatt
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: NJ
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, UA Silver, dirt elsewhere
Posts: 46,919
Who says we're encouraging such behavior? The forum doesn't make these posts, they've been around as long as I've been on Flyertalk (so 11 years before the forum if I can still do math). Closing the forum won't make these posts go away, they'll just end up back in Miles Buzz! or Travel Buzz! Or Community or any number of other forums.
It's still there.
The upside, which you mention, is that MilesBuzz is back to normal and I visit it far more often now that there's another place to dump all those posts.
Perhaps I should reconsider my opinion I get a daily laugh AND Miles Buzz stays as it is. Hmmm... leave ID alone
#52
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#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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#54
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Home
Programs: AA, Delta, UA & thanks to FTers for my PC Gold!
Posts: 7,676
Enhacing FT structure, instead of rerouting chaos...
The growing magnitude and cross-over in ID Forum never ceases to amaze me, which, let me be clear, is not a pleasant surprise at all.
I think the million dollar questions ought to be:
1. What is Information Desk Forum?
2. What should be Information Desk Forum like on FT?
3. How can Information Desk Forum carry a more distinctive, instead of overlapping, role from all the other fora on FT?
Some of my opinions haven't change after observing the existing ID Forum for more than a year:
The current state of ID Forum is almost like forcing the advanced skiers and the beginner in the same "playground", but the end result is neither group is happy. I don't think anyone would like to see a say medal worthy swimmers practice skills in kiddy's pool either.
I also understand there is a need for a "no man's land" (or an orphanage so to speak) on FT to house threads that don't appear to have a distinctive home forum. But we also have to draw a line so there's no confusion between the TravelBuzz Forum and this catch-all new corner. When a thread like this about lounge access can belong to either TravelBuzz or current ID Forum, that's not a good news as far as FT structure is concerned. When MODs dump threads (like this) that don't belong to ID Forum, "Houston, we have a problem!"
What's the downside to have a "Newbie Corner", where everyone who's not familiar with FT can come and ask whatever questions they have in mind w/r/t FT? We all were a newbie once and gradually find our way on FT. A couple of years back Slickdeals initiated a forum for newbies (in early 2000). I contributed my ideas of a sandbox area for newcomers to get their feet wet and that setup was quite useful and successful during that time. I lost track of SD after relocating back to Asia a few years ago so I don't know how they handle newbies nowadays. BUT FT is quite huge and new faces do need assistance finding the right paths. I think it took me a year or 2 before I found TB Topics Forum and made my 1st post. Some, or the majority, still don't know there's even a TB Topics Forum on board after so many years. Newbie are not judged by their FT age. Everybody can be a newbie if they learn something new from FT.
A cross-program discussion and award planning forum can only enhance FT. More and more savvy FTers gain status with more than one alliance and fly with multiple carriers globally. With clear forum rules, we can cut down those airline-specific threads and deter those get-me-free-mile-or-tix kind of threads.
An Information Desk Forum can easily be mistakenly identified as a place to ask anything, even it's a program-specific inquiry. So we've seen newbies asking how-to-start-my-own-non-travel-related business, marketing their status, and finding-me-cheap-fares. IMHO, none of those fits in the mission of the intended ID Forum. With a more descriptive forum name, such as Newbies and General FT Q&A, and some effective forum descriptor like "questions about using FT and non-airline/hotel specific threads", people will learn how to navigate FT with less time. And we don't have to corner those who can easily find their right way on Day One to ask their say CX questions in Cathay Pacific | Asia Miles Forum. After all, there are newbies and there are newbies.
I am not saying a forum restructuring, let it be renaming and/or splitting forum, will completely eliminate flying-blind or random shooting threads, but at least we provide a better road map to guide folks to become an asset on FT. Eventually, I hope.
OTA:
I hate to say it, but I am aware some of my random thoughts are overlapping with the concurrent TB Discussion thread. Rather than cross-posting, I'll simply link it since both threads are relevant to current ID Forum:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...als-forum.html
I think the million dollar questions ought to be:
1. What is Information Desk Forum?
2. What should be Information Desk Forum like on FT?
3. How can Information Desk Forum carry a more distinctive, instead of overlapping, role from all the other fora on FT?
Some of my opinions haven't change after observing the existing ID Forum for more than a year:
I totally get it that our Information Desk Forum is still in a work-in-progress stage. That makes it more important to lay out solid foundation to shape any future development. Otherwise, new comers would only model the "discouraging" behavior, such as cross-posting, inquiring specific airline or hotel loyalty programs, asking airport-specific questions,...etc.
Having said that, librarians direct readers to the proper floors and/or shelves when readers don't know where and how to find the books/info they need. No reader gets to stay & sit at Help Desk in the libraries when seeking help.
Having said that, librarians direct readers to the proper floors and/or shelves when readers don't know where and how to find the books/info they need. No reader gets to stay & sit at Help Desk in the libraries when seeking help.
My idea for an Award Planning Forum is different from a Q&A Forum. A general Q&A Forum is certainly not milesbuzzing but would do good for those who:
1. are clueless newbies;
2. want to travel (for free) but don't have miles/points at bay;
3. need basic FT education;
4. don't know how and/or where to start their research for FFPs;
5. don't know where to ask their questions or which forum their questions belong;
6. have questions that involve multi-FFP or alliance;
7. have many more general Qs.
I do think separating award planning from general Qs will be a more clean-cut restructuring for FT. Award Planning Forum would still belong to Miles&Points Section but a general catchall Q&A Forum shall be less fitting.
1. are clueless newbies;
2. want to travel (for free) but don't have miles/points at bay;
3. need basic FT education;
4. don't know how and/or where to start their research for FFPs;
5. don't know where to ask their questions or which forum their questions belong;
6. have questions that involve multi-FFP or alliance;
7. have many more general Qs.
I do think separating award planning from general Qs will be a more clean-cut restructuring for FT. Award Planning Forum would still belong to Miles&Points Section but a general catchall Q&A Forum shall be less fitting.
I also understand there is a need for a "no man's land" (or an orphanage so to speak) on FT to house threads that don't appear to have a distinctive home forum. But we also have to draw a line so there's no confusion between the TravelBuzz Forum and this catch-all new corner. When a thread like this about lounge access can belong to either TravelBuzz or current ID Forum, that's not a good news as far as FT structure is concerned. When MODs dump threads (like this) that don't belong to ID Forum, "Houston, we have a problem!"
What's the downside to have a "Newbie Corner", where everyone who's not familiar with FT can come and ask whatever questions they have in mind w/r/t FT? We all were a newbie once and gradually find our way on FT. A couple of years back Slickdeals initiated a forum for newbies (in early 2000). I contributed my ideas of a sandbox area for newcomers to get their feet wet and that setup was quite useful and successful during that time. I lost track of SD after relocating back to Asia a few years ago so I don't know how they handle newbies nowadays. BUT FT is quite huge and new faces do need assistance finding the right paths. I think it took me a year or 2 before I found TB Topics Forum and made my 1st post. Some, or the majority, still don't know there's even a TB Topics Forum on board after so many years. Newbie are not judged by their FT age. Everybody can be a newbie if they learn something new from FT.
A cross-program discussion and award planning forum can only enhance FT. More and more savvy FTers gain status with more than one alliance and fly with multiple carriers globally. With clear forum rules, we can cut down those airline-specific threads and deter those get-me-free-mile-or-tix kind of threads.
An Information Desk Forum can easily be mistakenly identified as a place to ask anything, even it's a program-specific inquiry. So we've seen newbies asking how-to-start-my-own-non-travel-related business, marketing their status, and finding-me-cheap-fares. IMHO, none of those fits in the mission of the intended ID Forum. With a more descriptive forum name, such as Newbies and General FT Q&A, and some effective forum descriptor like "questions about using FT and non-airline/hotel specific threads", people will learn how to navigate FT with less time. And we don't have to corner those who can easily find their right way on Day One to ask their say CX questions in Cathay Pacific | Asia Miles Forum. After all, there are newbies and there are newbies.
I am not saying a forum restructuring, let it be renaming and/or splitting forum, will completely eliminate flying-blind or random shooting threads, but at least we provide a better road map to guide folks to become an asset on FT. Eventually, I hope.
OTA:
I hate to say it, but I am aware some of my random thoughts are overlapping with the concurrent TB Discussion thread. Rather than cross-posting, I'll simply link it since both threads are relevant to current ID Forum:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...als-forum.html
Last edited by lin821; Dec 5, 2014 at 12:41 am Reason: OTA: linking to the other TB Discussion thread...
#55
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Home
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Posts: 7,676
How many missions should a forum carry?
Some advice us unhappy campers to not visit or simply ignore ID Forum. Such advice might have a merit if the existing forum carried a clear-cut boundary so everyone can choose to explore topics of their interests. But the status quote of ID Forum is so oddly cluttered that valuable cross-program threads have to call it home. It's hard to turn a blind eye for those of us want to learn a thing or 2 in cross-program challenges.
For example, I don't fancy political talks on FT so I rarely step in OMNI/PR Forum. But when I do pop my head in OMNI/PR, I know I am going to read politics. If I came to TB Forum and advocate to shut down OMNI/PR, just because I don't want to read nor talk politics on FT, I would be so out of line since our OMNI/PR Forum do have its irresplaceable place on FT. Not to mention the quality discussion and passionate participants that follow.
Unfortunately, the current ID Forum is marred because too many missions are placed upon it. It's sort of losing focus and drag away quality threads on cross-programs discussion. Who would come to a dump site to ask million-dollar question other than begging for freebies? The trend in forum activities proves my point.
I'd RBPed that threads within an hour, if not minutes, after it's started. I guess it's up to the MODs' hands now if ID Forum should include this sort of "begging" threads. I would even say some threads are better left unseen than locked.
For example, I don't fancy political talks on FT so I rarely step in OMNI/PR Forum. But when I do pop my head in OMNI/PR, I know I am going to read politics. If I came to TB Forum and advocate to shut down OMNI/PR, just because I don't want to read nor talk politics on FT, I would be so out of line since our OMNI/PR Forum do have its irresplaceable place on FT. Not to mention the quality discussion and passionate participants that follow.
Unfortunately, the current ID Forum is marred because too many missions are placed upon it. It's sort of losing focus and drag away quality threads on cross-programs discussion. Who would come to a dump site to ask million-dollar question other than begging for freebies? The trend in forum activities proves my point.
I'd RBPed that threads within an hour, if not minutes, after it's started. I guess it's up to the MODs' hands now if ID Forum should include this sort of "begging" threads. I would even say some threads are better left unseen than locked.
Last edited by lin821; Jan 5, 2015 at 6:31 am Reason: a big typo
#56
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Actually, I sometimes think that the policy for dealing with people who come to FT to beg or to attempt to buy/sell miles should be not only to remove the posts/thread from view as quickly as possible (but if people post warnings first about violations of FF program rules or that the beggar could be just a scammer, that's even better) but also to cut off the person's communication links using FT: if the account itself isn't immediately deleted, at least turn off the PM function and the optional email link. This would prevent someone from seeing the post here and then doing the transaction using FT's communications features.
#57
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Park, CO
Programs: Tegridy Elite
Posts: 5,678
Who says we're encouraging such behavior? The forum doesn't make these posts, they've been around as long as I've been on Flyertalk (so 11 years before the forum if I can still do math). Closing the forum won't make these posts go away, they'll just end up back in Miles Buzz! or Travel Buzz! Or Community or any number of other forums.
Well, it was posted on Dec 2. Today is the 4th and it's still there. It was from a newbie poster with only 2 posts in that thread. It's not the first time someone has opened an account to ask for people to donate for a vacation. At a minimum, those posts had been locked with a message that solicitation isn't allowed, or perhaps even deleted.
It's still there.
It's still there.
Some advice us unhappy campers to not visit or simply ignore ID Forum. Such advice might have a merit if the existing forum carried a clear-cut boundary so everyone can choose to explore topics of their interests. But the status quote of ID Forum is so oddly cluttered that valuable cross-program threads have to call it home. It's hard to turn a blind eye for those of us want to learn a thing or 2 in cross-program challenges.
#58
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend; Moderator: American Express, Capital One, Citi, Chase, Credit Card Programs, Diners Club, Signatures
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#59
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador: World of Hyatt
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: NJ
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, UA Silver, dirt elsewhere
Posts: 46,919
Lin21 did.
#60
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend; Moderator: American Express, Capital One, Citi, Chase, Credit Card Programs, Diners Club, Signatures
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,878
Thank you for connecting the dots for me. It is important to use the Alert feature to notify moderators when you see something inappropriate. Don't assume a moderator will read every post, nor see it in the same context. Alerts are very helpful when accompanied by a succinct explanation, but just because you still see the post in the forum does not mean that nothing is happening.