Dec 11, 2014, 8:30 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
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BACKGROUND TO THIS DISCUSSION: The motion to establish a Premium Fare Deals subforum under the Mileage Run Deals forum was passed 23 October 2014.
The thread discussing TalkBoard's consideration and implementation of the new forum can be read here: Should Premium Fare deals get its own forum?
Extract from the Motion Passed: Creation of a Premium Fare Deals Subforum thread:
Motion Passed: Creation of a Premium Fare Deals subforum
Moved by kokonutz and seconded by jason8612:
"The TalkBoard recommends to the Community Director the creation of a subforum called 'Premium Fare Deals' in the Mileage Run Deals forum."
Forum description:
"Discuss specific premium fare code 'good deals' including fare deals that book into premium economy, business and first class cabins. Once any fare expires, the title should be changed to note '[fare expired]'."
The new forum can be visited here: Premium Fare Deals
(lower right wiki corner)BACKGROUND TO THIS DISCUSSION: The motion to establish a Premium Fare Deals subforum under the Mileage Run Deals forum was passed 23 October 2014.
The thread discussing TalkBoard's consideration and implementation of the new forum can be read here: Should Premium Fare deals get its own forum?
Extract from the Motion Passed: Creation of a Premium Fare Deals Subforum thread:
Motion Passed: Creation of a Premium Fare Deals subforum
Moved by kokonutz and seconded by jason8612:
"The TalkBoard recommends to the Community Director the creation of a subforum called 'Premium Fare Deals' in the Mileage Run Deals forum."
Forum description:
"Discuss specific premium fare code 'good deals' including fare deals that book into premium economy, business and first class cabins. Once any fare expires, the title should be changed to note '[fare expired]'."
The new forum can be visited here: Premium Fare Deals
Close the recently created Premium Deals Forum
Nov 24, 2014, 3:00 pm
#181
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,107
Nov 24, 2014, 3:10 pm
#182
Moderator, Hilton Honors
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: on a short leash
Programs: some
Posts: 71,422
Mod hat off
My old, worn O.D. consultant hat on.
It feels to me there's a lot of high dudgeon and dead horse flogging going on; that's pretty normal with unanticipated loss and forcible change or its appearance. TB has undoubtedly learned from that. It also feels to me some of our external political behavior imay be slipping in here: find culprits, assign blame, hound the scoundrels out of office!
That's pretty normal, too, but it may blind us there are not the same motives here - "there, not here" thinking won't help, so we can choose to allow it free rein or to rein it in.
IMO, serving on TB has one thing in common (or more?) with serving as a mod - it's a generally thankless task without remuneration, fame, etc. and doesn't serve as a stepping stone to higher office or titular power. The main motivation I've seen in both groups are willingness to give back and to boost an active, welcoming and contributing community we want to thrive. There was, I strongly believe, no ulterior motive or hidden agenda here; there may have been some "group-think" and mutual enthusiasm that resulted in a truncated, abbreviated process (I say "may" because I have no idea - I wasn't present), but that can be rectified by institutionalising policy for the future.
As to the change: We can't reverse the past, restoring things to what they were will still be change and difference. Those who find the new subforum helpful will be upset, those who get back what they valued will see it in a different light and have some bitter aftertaste that wasn't there before. Some may choose to see the issue as a struggle, with winners and losers, retrospectively, and themselves as victors or victims.
If I were in my old job, I'd recommend the TalkBoard take the lesson learned and begin to craft a motion incorporating some of the suggestions made already, e.g. a required minimum discussion period, the posting of an announcement (and discussion and feedback thread?) in the forum to be affected, etc.
I'd also recommend less haste - and allowing the new forum to take shape and be trialled before throwing out the bath water, baby and all. It's done, and once it's existed and used a while, evaluation can be made and even member feedback can (should, IMO) be solicited. At that time, a substantiated decision can be made for continuing, modifying or reversion (think spectrum, not yes or no or zero or one).
The very good thing is the issue has been identified, people are discussing civilly so we can grow and proceed.
OK, I'll revert to my mod-Dom (recusing myself from giving an opinion on the old thread vs. new subforum), but I'm foremost a member and believe declining to state is not a good option for active, involved, participating members - and those we do have here.^
My old, worn O.D. consultant hat on.
It feels to me there's a lot of high dudgeon and dead horse flogging going on; that's pretty normal with unanticipated loss and forcible change or its appearance. TB has undoubtedly learned from that. It also feels to me some of our external political behavior imay be slipping in here: find culprits, assign blame, hound the scoundrels out of office!
That's pretty normal, too, but it may blind us there are not the same motives here - "there, not here" thinking won't help, so we can choose to allow it free rein or to rein it in. IMO, serving on TB has one thing in common (or more?) with serving as a mod - it's a generally thankless task without remuneration, fame, etc. and doesn't serve as a stepping stone to higher office or titular power. The main motivation I've seen in both groups are willingness to give back and to boost an active, welcoming and contributing community we want to thrive. There was, I strongly believe, no ulterior motive or hidden agenda here; there may have been some "group-think" and mutual enthusiasm that resulted in a truncated, abbreviated process (I say "may" because I have no idea - I wasn't present), but that can be rectified by institutionalising policy for the future.
As to the change: We can't reverse the past, restoring things to what they were will still be change and difference. Those who find the new subforum helpful will be upset, those who get back what they valued will see it in a different light and have some bitter aftertaste that wasn't there before. Some may choose to see the issue as a struggle, with winners and losers, retrospectively, and themselves as victors or victims.
If I were in my old job, I'd recommend the TalkBoard take the lesson learned and begin to craft a motion incorporating some of the suggestions made already, e.g. a required minimum discussion period, the posting of an announcement (and discussion and feedback thread?) in the forum to be affected, etc.
I'd also recommend less haste - and allowing the new forum to take shape and be trialled before throwing out the bath water, baby and all. It's done, and once it's existed and used a while, evaluation can be made and even member feedback can (should, IMO) be solicited. At that time, a substantiated decision can be made for continuing, modifying or reversion (think spectrum, not yes or no or zero or one).
The very good thing is the issue has been identified, people are discussing civilly so we can grow and proceed.
OK, I'll revert to my mod-Dom (recusing myself from giving an opinion on the old thread vs. new subforum), but I'm foremost a member and believe declining to state is not a good option for active, involved, participating members - and those we do have here.^
Nov 24, 2014, 3:24 pm
#183
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 541
I took some of the previous poster's advice and have configured IFTT (If This Then That) to send alerts of new threads being created. The alerts seem to be timely (runs every 15 minutes or so to check for new threads - so even better than our favorite ExpertFlyer!) - so at this point, I might be in the camp that thinks the new format is now just as good/maybe better.
Even though it's trivial to setup, I made the recipe public for anyone else who wants to try it:
https://ifttt.com/recipes/223306-fly...m-notification
Even though it's trivial to setup, I made the recipe public for anyone else who wants to try it:
https://ifttt.com/recipes/223306-fly...m-notification
Nov 24, 2014, 4:19 pm
#184
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,107
I took some of the previous poster's advice and have configured IFTT (If This Then That) to send alerts of new threads being created. The alerts seem to be timely (runs every 15 minutes or so to check for new threads - so even better than our favorite ExpertFlyer!) - so at this point, I might be in the camp that thinks the new format is now just as good/maybe better.
Even though it's trivial to setup, I made the recipe public for anyone else who wants to try it:
https://ifttt.com/recipes/223306-fly...m-notification
Even though it's trivial to setup, I made the recipe public for anyone else who wants to try it:
https://ifttt.com/recipes/223306-fly...m-notification
Would you be kind enough to post what you posted above in this thread? I know the mods are looking for input and yours would be welcome, the part about your configuration
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premi...-subforum.html
Cheers
Nov 24, 2014, 4:37 pm
#185
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Upcountry Maui, HI
Posts: 13,306
Even though it's trivial to setup, I made the recipe public for anyone else who wants to try it:
https://ifttt.com/recipes/223306-fly...m-notification
https://ifttt.com/recipes/223306-fly...m-notification
-David
Nov 24, 2014, 11:07 pm
#186
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Upcountry Maui, HI
Posts: 13,306
I took some of the previous poster's advice and have configured IFTT (If This Then That) to send alerts of new threads being created. The alerts seem to be timely (runs every 15 minutes or so to check for new threads - so even better than our favorite ExpertFlyer!) - so at this point, I might be in the camp that thinks the new format is now just as good/maybe better.
Even though it's trivial to setup, I made the recipe public for anyone else who wants to try it:
https://ifttt.com/recipes/223306-fly...m-notification
Even though it's trivial to setup, I made the recipe public for anyone else who wants to try it:
https://ifttt.com/recipes/223306-fly...m-notification
-David
Nov 25, 2014, 12:40 am
#187
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,172
I too am having difficulties to get that solution to work. I have severe delays and many notifications dropped. Since it works for some, I am leaning towards some anti-spam issues or server side congestion.
Since I never had any issues with FT notifications, I do hope someone still is looking into getting that to work.
Nov 25, 2014, 9:07 am
#188
Community Director Emerita
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Anywhere warm
Posts: 33,745
Even though it's trivial to setup, I made the recipe public for anyone else who wants to try it:
https://ifttt.com/recipes/223306-fly...m-notification
https://ifttt.com/recipes/223306-fly...m-notification
Nov 25, 2014, 12:17 pm
#189
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: KATL
Programs: DL DM/2MM
Posts: 2,034
smachiz- Thanks for setting this up and thanks to others that have mentioned the ifttt feeds.
I tried it out for the Delta forum as well just to see how it works on a really high volume forum.
The advantage this has over the thread subscriptions is that thread title shows up in the subject line, so you can easily decide to open or ignore. The subject line is also configurable, so if you want create your own recipe with a different spec for the subject line, you can do so.
The slight disadvantage is the lag time. It's about 1.5 hours behind for me as well. Except in the cases of mistake fares or deals discovered just before the expiration, this lag isn't significant to me. All things considered, this is the best option that I've seen for this.
I tried it out for the Delta forum as well just to see how it works on a really high volume forum.
The advantage this has over the thread subscriptions is that thread title shows up in the subject line, so you can easily decide to open or ignore. The subject line is also configurable, so if you want create your own recipe with a different spec for the subject line, you can do so.
The slight disadvantage is the lag time. It's about 1.5 hours behind for me as well. Except in the cases of mistake fares or deals discovered just before the expiration, this lag isn't significant to me. All things considered, this is the best option that I've seen for this.
Nov 25, 2014, 12:46 pm
#190
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
If mistake fares are what people really need to know about instantly, let's start a Mistake Fare sticky. Every mistake fare gets a single post only (or a new post if it becomes active again after a period of invalidity). The post can link to the relevant topic in the forum. Posts in the thread not containing a genuine new mistake fare should be strongly discouraged. This way, not much noise and hopefully not much moderator maintenance required.
It's unlikely to be a megathread because only a small number of (actual) mistake fares get posted every year. I don't know what to do about people getting confused with sales and mistakes, but usually inspection of the fare rules reveals whether revenue management have made a booboo.
Fares would have to follow the remaining rules in the forum, e.g., no secret tricks.
Thoughts?
It's unlikely to be a megathread because only a small number of (actual) mistake fares get posted every year. I don't know what to do about people getting confused with sales and mistakes, but usually inspection of the fare rules reveals whether revenue management have made a booboo.
Fares would have to follow the remaining rules in the forum, e.g., no secret tricks.
Thoughts?
Nov 25, 2014, 12:59 pm
#191
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,107
If mistake fares are what people really need to know about instantly, let's start a Mistake Fare sticky. Every mistake fare gets a single post only (or a new post if it becomes active again after a period of invalidity). The post can link to the relevant topic in the forum. Posts in the thread not containing a genuine new mistake fare should be strongly discouraged. This way, not much noise and hopefully not much moderator maintenance required.
It's unlikely to be a megathread because only a small number of (actual) mistake fares get posted every year. I don't know what to do about people getting confused with sales and mistakes, but usually inspection of the fare rules reveals whether revenue management have made a booboo.
Fares would have to follow the remaining rules in the forum, e.g., no secret tricks.
Thoughts?
It's unlikely to be a megathread because only a small number of (actual) mistake fares get posted every year. I don't know what to do about people getting confused with sales and mistakes, but usually inspection of the fare rules reveals whether revenue management have made a booboo.
Fares would have to follow the remaining rules in the forum, e.g., no secret tricks.
Thoughts?
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premi...-subforum.html
Cheers.
Nov 25, 2014, 1:01 pm
#192
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,404
If mistake fares are what people really need to know about instantly, let's start a Mistake Fare sticky. Every mistake fare gets a single post only (or a new post if it becomes active again after a period of invalidity). The post can link to the relevant topic in the forum. Posts in the thread not containing a genuine new mistake fare should be strongly discouraged. This way, not much noise and hopefully not much moderator maintenance required.
It's unlikely to be a megathread because only a small number of (actual) mistake fares get posted every year. I don't know what to do about people getting confused with sales and mistakes, but usually inspection of the fare rules reveals whether revenue management have made a booboo.
Fares would have to follow the remaining rules in the forum, e.g., no secret tricks.
Thoughts?
It's unlikely to be a megathread because only a small number of (actual) mistake fares get posted every year. I don't know what to do about people getting confused with sales and mistakes, but usually inspection of the fare rules reveals whether revenue management have made a booboo.
Fares would have to follow the remaining rules in the forum, e.g., no secret tricks.
Thoughts?
Another idea would be to only allow mods, any future MR forum Ambassadors, and a group of active participants to post in the thread to avoid lots of false alarms that result in alerts being sent to everyone before some mod has to move or remove the post. If enough actives are here almost 24/7, this might work if the FT technology allows it.
Apparently who can edit wikis can be restricted, but AFAIK the technology doesn't allow notifications to be based on changes to a wiki, but this assumption might be wrong. I also might be wrong that it would be possible to have a list of people, many of whom are not mods or Ambassadors, who are allowed to post in one particular thread.
Nov 25, 2014, 1:02 pm
#193
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,107
Should it be a sticky or just allowed to jump to the top when there's some action?
Another idea would be to only allow mods, any future MR forum Ambassadors, and a group of active participants to post in the thread to avoid lots of false alarms that result in alerts being sent to everyone before some mod has to move or remove the post. If enough actives are here almost 24/7, this might work if the FT technology allows it.
Apparently who can edit wikis can be restricted, but AFAIK the technology doesn't allow notifications to be based on changes to a wiki, but this assumption might be wrong. I also might be wrong that it would be possible to have a list of people, many of whom are not mods or Ambassadors, who are allowed to post in one particular thread.
Another idea would be to only allow mods, any future MR forum Ambassadors, and a group of active participants to post in the thread to avoid lots of false alarms that result in alerts being sent to everyone before some mod has to move or remove the post. If enough actives are here almost 24/7, this might work if the FT technology allows it.
Apparently who can edit wikis can be restricted, but AFAIK the technology doesn't allow notifications to be based on changes to a wiki, but this assumption might be wrong. I also might be wrong that it would be possible to have a list of people, many of whom are not mods or Ambassadors, who are allowed to post in one particular thread.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/premi...-subforum.html
Cheers.
Nov 25, 2014, 1:29 pm
#194
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NYC
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 541
interestingly - the problem with the delays isn't IFTTT, it's FlyerTalk. If you look at the RSS feed (just open in a browser) for the Mileage Run forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/exter...2&forumids=372) the newest JNB thread (posted ~17 minutes ago now), nor the previous thread (~22 minutes) don't even show up in the RSS feed yet. I assume the exact same behavior is exhibited in the Premium Deals forum.
I wonder if we can have someone at FT tech look into this...
I opened a thread in the support section (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/techn...ly-manner.html) that will hopefully shed some light on this.
Don't know why I didn't see it earlier, but:
<lastBuildDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:50:42 GMT</lastBuildDate>
<generator>vBulletin</generator>
<ttl>120</ttl>
Basically, as soon as someone hits the URL, it doesn't get regenerated for 120 minutes (ttl stands for time to live). Let's hope they can lower the TTL on the flyertalk side.
I wonder if we can have someone at FT tech look into this...
I opened a thread in the support section (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/techn...ly-manner.html) that will hopefully shed some light on this.
Don't know why I didn't see it earlier, but:
<lastBuildDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:50:42 GMT</lastBuildDate>
<generator>vBulletin</generator>
<ttl>120</ttl>
Basically, as soon as someone hits the URL, it doesn't get regenerated for 120 minutes (ttl stands for time to live). Let's hope they can lower the TTL on the flyertalk side.
Last edited by smachiz; Nov 25, 2014 at 2:12 pm
Nov 25, 2014, 3:09 pm
#195
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,107
interestingly - the problem with the delays isn't IFTTT, it's FlyerTalk. If you look at the RSS feed (just open in a browser) for the Mileage Run forum (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/exter...2&forumids=372) the newest JNB thread (posted ~17 minutes ago now), nor the previous thread (~22 minutes) don't even show up in the RSS feed yet. I assume the exact same behavior is exhibited in the Premium Deals forum.
I wonder if we can have someone at FT tech look into this...
I opened a thread in the support section (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/techn...ly-manner.html) that will hopefully shed some light on this.
Don't know why I didn't see it earlier, but:
<lastBuildDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:50:42 GMT</lastBuildDate>
<generator>vBulletin</generator>
<ttl>120</ttl>
Basically, as soon as someone hits the URL, it doesn't get regenerated for 120 minutes (ttl stands for time to live). Let's hope they can lower the TTL on the flyertalk side.
I wonder if we can have someone at FT tech look into this...
I opened a thread in the support section (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/techn...ly-manner.html) that will hopefully shed some light on this.
Don't know why I didn't see it earlier, but:
<lastBuildDate>Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:50:42 GMT</lastBuildDate>
<generator>vBulletin</generator>
<ttl>120</ttl>
Basically, as soon as someone hits the URL, it doesn't get regenerated for 120 minutes (ttl stands for time to live). Let's hope they can lower the TTL on the flyertalk side.
Cheers.