View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
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Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Nov 26, 2013, 5:59 pm
#61
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ICT
Programs: AA ExP
Posts: 1,860
Ha ok so this is one thread with one too many "like" gags but that won't stop me stringing it along...
.... I do think FT seriously, seriously needs some way to better differentiate contributors than post count. I am frustrated by certain posted with "evangelist" status who make posts that are 100% factually incorrect. Of course I won't name names, but there are some folks here who have over 10k posts and will come into a discussion and make a statement as if it's complete fact and I just know it's wrong. I need a way to thumbs down these people, and people need to be able to thumbs up the people who make genuinely useful contributions. I don't think "liking" individual posts does anything to fix that unless likes gets linked to some overall score but I think something along the lines of SlickDeals rep system could be very helpful here to distinguish those who just post endless junk.
.... I do think FT seriously, seriously needs some way to better differentiate contributors than post count. I am frustrated by certain posted with "evangelist" status who make posts that are 100% factually incorrect. Of course I won't name names, but there are some folks here who have over 10k posts and will come into a discussion and make a statement as if it's complete fact and I just know it's wrong. I need a way to thumbs down these people, and people need to be able to thumbs up the people who make genuinely useful contributions. I don't think "liking" individual posts does anything to fix that unless likes gets linked to some overall score but I think something along the lines of SlickDeals rep system could be very helpful here to distinguish those who just post endless junk.
Nov 26, 2013, 6:36 pm
#62
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,621
Some sort of post rating functionality has been needed for a long, long time. The typical response is that it was tried once and failed due to gaming, or that vBulletin doesn't support a different form of rating.
I think it's past time to assemble our wish list of what this feature should look like, then just ask IB to implement it. They've been really great at accommodating our reasonable requests recently.
I'd like to see our new TalkBoard grab this subject and run with it.
I think it's past time to assemble our wish list of what this feature should look like, then just ask IB to implement it. They've been really great at accommodating our reasonable requests recently.
I'd like to see our new TalkBoard grab this subject and run with it.
Nov 27, 2013, 6:47 am
#63
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
Glad to see some agreement on my suggestions. In fact if we go back to the long and painful process of getting wiki's implemented one can come to the same conclusion each time - SlickDeals and FatWallet already have the right model so why reinvent the wheel? Both those sites have all the features we discuss here and are all the better for it (a rep system in this instance - I think SD has a much better system than FW in this instance, they both had wiki's long before FT gave up much of that content to blogs)
{Discussion of moderation removed per board rules. Outside of TalkBoard purvey. Please contact the Community Director if you have feedback on the subject. Also not germane to the thread topic.}
{Discussion of moderation removed per board rules. Outside of TalkBoard purvey. Please contact the Community Director if you have feedback on the subject. Also not germane to the thread topic.}
Last edited by Moderator2; Nov 27, 2013 at 2:58 pm
Sep 9, 2014, 10:02 pm
#64
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,621
With the recent addition of the "Breaking News" alert button at the bottom of each post, I figure that Internet Brands has once again shown us that new features can be implemented if the desire is there. So I would like to reopen the "Like" topic for discussion.
I think a "Thanks" button or similar indicator of the value of a post (whether information or amusement) would improve the reading experience on FlyerTalk.
Ideally the forum software would allow filtering on the up-rating count, so that the "Thanks" button would be in effect a "Be sure to read this post" button. Even without software filtering, people who are pressed for time could learn to visually skim a thread for highly rated posts to read.
This feature is worth at least as much as the recent News button. With a little more programming it even has the potential to identify valuable posts that are somehow not flagged as Breaking News by readers.
Folks, we have kicked this idea around ineffectually for close to a decade. That's an eternity in Internet time.
I'm all in favor of taking some time to refine the idea and get IB's advice on implementation constraints, but then:
This would be a great feature. Could also call it "Thanks" feature (instead of "Like"). It would actually save a lot of posts, and it would be a good way to reward especially useful posts. German website http://www.vielfliegertreff.de has this system, and I have found it really, really useful. It's a friendly, positive feature with practically no potential for abuse.
+1
I think the place that it brings the most outsized value is when there are contradictory posts. It can be made clear to newbies or to those who don't know the answer, which of the contradictory posts is correct.
But in general, I just like positive feedback. I think it incentivizes quality content. If I receive 10 Likes for a post, it makes me more likely to take the time to contribute quality content in the future. It's just human nature that we like having our efforts appreciated. And appreciated in a way that doesn't sidetrack and clutter the thread.
I think the place that it brings the most outsized value is when there are contradictory posts. It can be made clear to newbies or to those who don't know the answer, which of the contradictory posts is correct.
But in general, I just like positive feedback. I think it incentivizes quality content. If I receive 10 Likes for a post, it makes me more likely to take the time to contribute quality content in the future. It's just human nature that we like having our efforts appreciated. And appreciated in a way that doesn't sidetrack and clutter the thread.
Ideally the forum software would allow filtering on the up-rating count, so that the "Thanks" button would be in effect a "Be sure to read this post" button. Even without software filtering, people who are pressed for time could learn to visually skim a thread for highly rated posts to read.
This feature is worth at least as much as the recent News button. With a little more programming it even has the potential to identify valuable posts that are somehow not flagged as Breaking News by readers.
Folks, we have kicked this idea around ineffectually for close to a decade. That's an eternity in Internet time.
I'm all in favor of taking some time to refine the idea and get IB's advice on implementation constraints, but then:
Let's get off our butts and actually try something!
Sep 9, 2014, 10:26 pm
#65
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,107
Oh good grief. You make it sound as though FTers have been clamoring for this for a decade when FB barely got started back then.
The other - and quite frankly more important thing - is that FTers themselves are split pretty evenly on whether they want like, so your red comment doesn't really apply. We encountered that with the titles issue. A fter saying do something when each time the topic was brought up FTers were equally split on whether they wanted it or not, and that's how the vote went.
As a TB member I'm willing to keep an open mind. As a fter I'm against like for the reasons I outlined earlier in this thread. Besides not wanting to read a gazillion like a one person saying a post has value or is correct doesn't' t make it so.
Ps -the news button is a trial at this point and only available to mods and a few long time FTers and TB members. Because of that I'm quite surprised you'd bring it up publicly. For others who Don't fit into the category of FTers currently granted access for the trial bit are now wondering why it is, it's basically a button that allows you to alert IB to a thread that you think is newsworthy and should be considered for news on FT' s home page. It's made clear it should be something newsworthy. Right now there are hiccups such as where it's positioned, etc, and there may be changes etc, so nsx basically jumped the boat by bringing it up.
Cheers
The other - and quite frankly more important thing - is that FTers themselves are split pretty evenly on whether they want like, so your red comment doesn't really apply. We encountered that with the titles issue. A fter saying do something when each time the topic was brought up FTers were equally split on whether they wanted it or not, and that's how the vote went.
As a TB member I'm willing to keep an open mind. As a fter I'm against like for the reasons I outlined earlier in this thread. Besides not wanting to read a gazillion like a one person saying a post has value or is correct doesn't' t make it so.
Ps -the news button is a trial at this point and only available to mods and a few long time FTers and TB members. Because of that I'm quite surprised you'd bring it up publicly. For others who Don't fit into the category of FTers currently granted access for the trial bit are now wondering why it is, it's basically a button that allows you to alert IB to a thread that you think is newsworthy and should be considered for news on FT' s home page. It's made clear it should be something newsworthy. Right now there are hiccups such as where it's positioned, etc, and there may be changes etc, so nsx basically jumped the boat by bringing it up.
Cheers
Last edited by SkiAdcock; Sep 9, 2014 at 10:43 pm Reason: explaon news bitton since nsx brought it uo...
Sep 9, 2014, 10:50 pm
#66
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,621
Oh good grief. You make it sound as though FTers have been clamoring for this for a decade when FB barely got started back then.
The other - and quite frankly more important thing - is that FTers themselves are split pretty evenly on whether they want like, so your red comment doesn't really apply. We encountered that with the titles issue. A fter saying do something when each time the topic was brought up FTers were equally split on whether they wanted it or not, and that's how the vote went.
As a TB member I'm willing to keep an open mind. As a fter I'm against like for the reasons I outlined earlier in this thread. Besides not wanting to read a gazillion like a one person saying a post has value or is correct doesn't' t make it so.
Ps -the news button is a trial and only available to mods and some long time FTers and TB members. Because of that I'm quite surprised you'd bring it up publicly.
Cheers
The other - and quite frankly more important thing - is that FTers themselves are split pretty evenly on whether they want like, so your red comment doesn't really apply. We encountered that with the titles issue. A fter saying do something when each time the topic was brought up FTers were equally split on whether they wanted it or not, and that's how the vote went.
As a TB member I'm willing to keep an open mind. As a fter I'm against like for the reasons I outlined earlier in this thread. Besides not wanting to read a gazillion like a one person saying a post has value or is correct doesn't' t make it so.
Ps -the news button is a trial and only available to mods and some long time FTers and TB members. Because of that I'm quite surprised you'd bring it up publicly.
Cheers
That's what I get for speed reading. I didn't realize the News button was limited. My point was that IB can implement what TB asks for, within reason.
The Thanks feature would just show a count and possibly a truncated list of members taking less than a full line of screen in small font. That's the cost of the feature. The benefit to readers is faster skimming and for evaluating the credibility of the information. A speculative benefit is more high-value posts. IMHO the benefits outweigh the cost, making this feature worth the effort to try out.
The TB had no problem ending the first experiment (long ago) when it failed. We should do a better job designing a feature and then see how it works.
Sep 9, 2014, 11:07 pm
#67
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,107
Also TB neither implemented nor killed the rating feature years ago. Randy did.
Evidently Ib has been working on news concept for a while and not in response to a TB request.
Speaking only for myself I'd much rather they put their efforts into a decent mobile app given how many people now access websites, bbs that way, vs doing news or like. Having a decent mobile app would benefit more of our 500,000 members than news or like.
Ok I'm off to bed for the night.
Cheers.
Last edited by SkiAdcock; Sep 9, 2014 at 11:13 pm
Sep 10, 2014, 1:23 am
#68
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,621
Sep 10, 2014, 4:24 am
#69
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,194
And there's the problem. Just because someone says like or thanks doesn't' t make a post credible. The information could be wrong and you could still get likes and thanks. I've seen that on other BBs and just shake my head. And what if you have 2posts that contradict each other but both get likes/thanks.
Below every Yelp review, there are three buttons:
Was this review …?
Useful / Funny / Cool
On FlyerTalk, perhaps one of them could be labeled "Accurate"?
Sep 10, 2014, 5:47 am
#70
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: A few
Posts: 5,499
The Like/ThumbsUp button works for some other small social interaction sites like say... Facebook. Oh and it works very well on what I think is the by far superior (at least technically if not on content) SlickDeals.
Yes FT needs an app too.
Yes FT needs an app too.
Sep 10, 2014, 6:01 am
#71
Moderator: Lufthansa Miles & More, India based airlines, India, External Miles & Points Resources
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: MUC
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 48,158
Over at VFT I give and get 'Danke' all the time:
View Screen Capture
Don't ask me what benefit it has though.
View Screen Capture
Don't ask me what benefit it has though.
Sep 10, 2014, 10:24 am
#72
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 71,107
Sep 10, 2014, 12:48 pm
#73
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Home
Programs: AA, Delta, UA & thanks to FTers for my PC Gold!
Posts: 7,676
Ps -the news button is a trial at this point and only available to mods and a few long time FTers and TB members. Because of that I'm quite surprised you'd bring it up publicly. For others who Don't fit into the category of FTers currently granted access for the trial bit are now wondering why it is, it's basically a button that allows you to alert IB to a thread that you think is newsworthy and should be considered for news on FT' s home page.
The sad truth is certain improvement, such as FT Premium and some functional mobile apps, has long been put on hold or ignored by IB.
Amen!
Last edited by lin821; Sep 10, 2014 at 1:09 pm Reason: adding quotes/responses
Oct 2, 2014, 6:17 am
#74
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 4
I agree even if there is a like button, so it's not going to eliminate a perceived problem.
Oct 9, 2014, 9:07 am
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,330
He kicked a lot of heads in the process for being jackasses, and abusing it terribly, and as many of those same souls are still active here today, have no doubt history would repeat itself here.
No-one here or on TB in a majority wants avatars, or even agreed on changing the 16 year old member descriptors past the totally lame "Evangelist" etc - and that is where FT heads are at. "Lets keep things just like they were in 1998 ... no harm there - that nice Bill Clinton fellow will do ME just dandy for President, have a nice day."
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/town-...ostcounts.html