SkiAdcock

Well 2/3 of TB decides, not majority

FWIW & speaking only for myself. I'm not sure everything needs a formal proposal/motion. When a subject is raised, if there's not enough support in internal discussions by TB based on their own thoughts & reading comments by FTers in a suggestion thread - ie, we know something isn't going to pass (note this is a generic comment & not necessarily re: this particular issue), then doing a formal proposal & 2-week voting process when we know it's going to fail at the outset is a waste of everyone's time, when instead a simple this doesn't have enough support yet at this time declaration in the public forum could cover it (and has in the past btw).

Now, re: this particular topic (provided the proposal gets a second), I think it's a 'solution in search of a problem' and am not inclined to support it. If a change needs to be made, I think a sticky will take care of it & a sticky does not require TB intervention.

Cheers.

travelkid

Can be good for voters to know where TB members stand, either in form of a vote, or at least in the form of parttaking in discussions. This can also be cross referenced to campaigns.

MSPeconomist

I've been re-reading this thread and looking for arguments, both pro and con. Two issues that seem not to have been addressed very much are the following:

Will a separate (mainland) Chinese airlines forum benefit the Other Asian carriers forum substantially? This argument has arisen recently in the discussion of a potential Aer Lingus forum.

Has anyone attempted to count threads about (mainland) Chinese airlines in the *A and SkyTeam fora? How about some of their major members? I know that questions about Chinese SkyTeam carriers appear regularly in the SkyTeam alliance forum and, in addition, some appear in Delta. (In fact, I've personally answered a number of questions about flying CZ domestic as well as suggesting routes, etc., when people ask about earning DL miles or getting these flights on DL award tickets.) It's work and shouldn't amount to more threads than those that were posted in the Other Asian forum, but maybe the numbers would surprise us.

travelkid

If its an argument, I believe its bigger here. But I probably wouldnt call it substantially. But it may add weight. If one strongly oppose having Taiwanese and Chinese carriers in the same forum it also holds weight.

travelkid

IIRC I only checked forumwide for "China". I believe I have explained my searches. Dont know if anyone has checked wide enough. I think I made some estimates. Maybe some added more numbers.

RichMSN

I agree with you. Transparency good. For various reasons.

SkiAdcock

I don't have a problem w/ something being formally brought up for a vote (re: of topic).

But again (speaking generically) I do think that if it's obvious to TB even before something is brought up for a vote that it's not going to pass, that it's a bit of a waste of time for both FTers/TB members to go through the motion/2-week voting process simply for the sake of going through the motion, especially if something has already been in full discussion both in public & private forums & there's not a likelihood of new arguments being brought to the table to change the no votes.

In that case, a simple this doesn't have enough support to pass at this time is sufficient, but that's just me. I'm speaking only for myself of course, but in this case I'm speaking in both my capacities: as an FTer and as a TB member.

Cheers.

RichMSN

It's not like we've voted on many things lately.

I think FT members deserve to know where each one of us stands individually, even if the motion does fail in the end.

SkiAdcock

Do we have a quota for things to vote on?

FWIW & speaking only for myself as a TB member. I think a sticky (which was suggested in this public thread) would have solved the perceived problem re: this topic & a motion wasn't required at all.

I'm not going to vote right away since if we're going to make it a formal vote then we need to offer FTers time to continue their input, but I will say that unless some very compelling arguments come up for the creation of this forum that haven't been made to date, I'm a No vote.

Cheers.

RichMSN

The sticky in an existing forum might be the answer and I agree that wouldn't require our input, but I feel the membership deserves to see a vote.

Private discussions leading to statements of "no consensus reached" shouldn't be the way the TB operates regularly, in my opinion.

SkiAdcock

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether this required a formal motion/vote, especially if there's somewhat of an agreement that a sticky might have been the answer to a perceived problem. A sticky doesn't require TB intervention.

There's a difference between 'no consensus reached' & 'it doesn't have enough support to pass at this time'.

Cheers.

Kagehitokiri

if there is private discussion on why some tiny forums are allowed while other tiny/larger forums are not, clearly that is something that some people would like to know, especially if it means they should stop working on forum proposal research etc

RichMSN

Isn't that what I said, that a sticky doesn't require TB intervention?

Seems to me that some (or perhaps one?) wants a forum. I think it's perfectly appropriate that we come out and tell the people who voted for TB how we stand on this issue.

travelkid

There are pretty frequent proposals in TB forum, mostly drive-bys. All are told to get back to drawing board and do research

This proposal will be a killer for encouraging members to contribute and spend hours of research- when its shot down anyway. This proposal is meeting ALL reasonable metrics, as evidenced, and per any other practice over the recent years. Someone has questioned the agenda. Thats a perfectly valid question.

Sticky or separate forum are not mutually exclusive. A sticky would be benefitial in both cases. A sticky in todays forum would be a big improvement, but it needs work. Its also easier to coordinate such work when a forum gets mods. A sticky might on some points be counterproductive, as you get it almost as a lounge thread, thus also reducing the number of threads, creating a picture of less need.

moondog

I don't know about that. For me, at least, this thread itself has been mildly interesting. And, I don't sweat the (minimal amount of) research I performed in the process of developing my position.

Switching topics, I must admit that the idea of automatically moving all threads (FT wide) that mention Chinese airlines (by name) in their titles into a single forum (along with redirects from their original forums) is somewhat intriguing. Of course, this would be an unprecedented endeavor for FT, so it probably isn't relevant to your current motion.