Prospero

It would appear there is a minor anomaly in the Other Loyalty Programs/Partners section.

This section has three forums

• Amtrak Guest Rewards
• iDine/Rewards Network
• Gaming Loyalty Programs

All well and good. However changes at The Mileage Company have introduced a few challenges to the running of the BA forum. Let me rewind and explain…

Until November 2011, The Mileage Company (a subsidiary of IAG) oversaw the running of Air Miles UK which is best described as a consumer loyalty scheme. AirMiles members earned points through everyday consumer spending (retail, credit card expenditure etc) which could be redeemed for air travel, hotel stays, red letter experiences etc. The Air Miles programme has since been rebranded Avios and as part of the revamp the old AirMiles currency was replaced by a new currency called Avios.

At the same time of the AirMiles transformation, all other FFPs under IAG's umbrella were revamped (BA Executive Club, IB Plus) and a common currency was introduced. The name of this new current is Avios.

Prior to this change, the BA forum was the de facto surrogate for UK based Air Miles discussion; the volume of threads with an Air Miles theme was very light and sporadic. The distinction was clear so it presented no problems. Since the revamp, the BA forum has accommodated an increased level of Avios programme activity. Given the similarity of names and currency, this is leading to some confusion among members as there is actually very little overlap between the Avios programme and British Airways Executive Club.

Ideally, as moderators we would seek to encourage discussion relating to the Avios programme to follow in the Other Loyalty Programs/Partners section but as I pointed out above, at the moment there is no generic forum in this section. The three existing forums in this section are highly specific.

I think it would be very helpful to our community members if a home for Avios was created on FT. This could take the form of a generic "Other Loyalty Programs" or "UK Consumer Loyalties Programmes" or alternatively a more specific "Avios Consumer Loyalty program" forum. I am hopeful a discussion here will expand the merits of each option.

LTN Phobia

I think this is a good call to separate the BAEC and the old Airmiles.

I think any of the options, "Other Loyalty Programs" or other, more specific options, would work.

If it goes for UK Consumer Loyalties Programme, it could also encompass Nectar as it has an option to redeem for Eurostar and easyJet from memory. Perhaps even "UK Consumer Loyalties Programmes - Avios, Nectar etc" would be an option? Perhaps it would be worth assigning a UK-specific forum so as not to have the topics too difficult to distinguish, should the likes of FlyBuys in Australia be covered as well?

Should the Avios-specific option be chosen, we could argue whether it should be "Avios Consumer Loyalty Programme" forum or "Avios Consumer Loyalty Program" forum - I'd be voting for Programme, I'm afraid, since it's a UK programme.

A completely different alternative is to create an Avios loyalty programme section as a subforum of BAEC. Not at all 'correct' technically, but at least the issues of easy referencing of Avios "specials" that some members mentioned as a concern could be solved that way?

origin

I think it would be easier for the UK users to follow Avios.com if it was a quick and easy separate area. The importance of avios.com has increased since the change last year. We now have more reasons to collect them as using them is easier. I also find looking for reward flights for family and friends easier on avios.com than on BA. There is no reason why we cant have a seperate section for them now.

bhatnasx

What about:

S.P.A.M. Sites with Points and Alternative Miles, including referral bonuses, congas and any other loyalty currencies.

Jenbel

There's no British user base in SPAM, as it's about US based offers - I can't see any offer on the front page which is not a US based offer. It's a forum which is meaningless to a non-American Also, as referenced in previous discussions, the meaning of SPAM has changed a lot since it's conception.

Trying to get UK specific subjects build up momentum in a forum full of Americans doing congas would be trying to push water uphill.

Prospero

Had I suggested S.P.A.M. i'm certain I would be facing certain mutiny and in fairness our members have been industrious building resource threads on Avios. This course of activity highlights a great many benefits of the programme which in turn is feeding good discussion.

As a programme, Avios is as sophisticated as any airline FFPs and deserves a place on FT which will foster growth. Site it in S.P.A.M. any potential will be smothered, I fear.

bhatnasx

Rather than a generic forum - would it make sense to do an "Avios Other Offers" subforum (or something) in the BA forum - it sounds like this is more of an Avios issue than a generic forum.

Prospero

That would be like adding a Malev subforum to the BAEC forum - okay not a great analogy but it emphasises the distinction. Avios and the EC have common partners but they distinctly separate programmes. Avios promos are not applicable to EC members.

PanGalactic

PLEASE don't stick us together with the Nectar/easyjet people

Roger

It's not FT's fault that IAG decided on Avios as the currency for their different programmes, and it is useful to discuss how FT can cope.

An addition to Prospero's introduction, Air Miles was BA's FF programme when it started and before BA Miles was hived off.Similar? Identical to me as someone converting Avios for flight awards. Avios are Avios are Avios.

Little overlap? Huge overlap. Avios in the different programmes are 100% transferable between the programmes, meaning travellers can combine BA Avios, avios.com Avios and IB Avios for award flights.

Differences such as Eurostar awards (avios.com) and car rental and hotel credits (all three programmes) can be overcome by transferring between accounts if necessary.

Avios, BA Miles and Airmiles are so closely linked to BA that for me, the logical place for discussion is the BA Forum, perhaps as a sub-forum. I suspect that avios.com (ex-Airmiles) is almost completely UK-oriented. I don't follow the IB forum so can't immediately tell whether IB FTers need an Avios forum/sub-forum.

IMO, the reference to Malev is not relevant because AFAIK MA doesn't offer Avios.

The Flying Blue forum seems to work well with with two sub-fora for the former AF and KL programmes. Nobody is seriously suggesting that DL, OK and other FB members merit FB sub-fora.

Ditto the LX sub-forum in the Miles & More forum, which seems to work well without sub-fora for all the other M+M members.

If a change is necessary, I would prefer a sub-forum in the BAEC forum.

jpdx

+1 on Prospero's proposal. I recently had a misposted thread in MR Discussion (which due to its location is a forum that gets a lot of misposted threads) about Airmiles (Canada). My first impulse -after googling what Airmiles are- was to send it to a generic Other Loyalty Programs forum. I was surprised that such forum doesn't exist, briefly considered SPAM, but discarded that idea because I assumed there's no Canadian user base in that forum, and finally moved it to the AC forum, where it did not receive an overly warm reception. I have no idea whether a general Loyalty Programs forum would see enough traffic, or whether non-US users would frequent it, but conceptually, it's missing.

bhatnasx

I guess the only thing about a generic loyalty program forum is that it'd have to be defined as primarily travel-oriented. When you think about it, Starbucks, PetSmart, drug stores, and most grocery stores have their own loyalty programs.

I don't think it's a big issue to create a loyalty program forum - but I guess the question is where to draw the line? And for what it's worth, when we did create the gaming loyalty forum, I was one of the first to support it - so I see the value.

Would an Avios-specific (and maybe AirMiles-specific) forum be warranted under the Other Loyalty Programs forum? Or just a generic (only because now I'm envisioning discussion about Starbuck's loyatly program!) forum?

No other TB members have expressed an opinion yet...but I can probably get behind this....

tom911

We're seeing a lot of Avios threads on the AA forum, even though it's not AA's frequent flyer currency. Today we've had two posts, one about secure flight info on AA and another about baggage fees on AA, for Avios users. There's been 31 Avios-related posts since January 1. Maybe it is time to look at a forum for that brand so those posts can be consolidated in one place.

SkiAdcock

I've been offline for a few days, but in reading this thread I'd probably support this, but have the same question (which I've bolded above so the OP knows the question).

Cheers.

Prospero

I must confess I am no expert on the Avios programme but with that disclaimer in place, I don't believe AA is currently an Avios airline partner. So, when mentioning their Avios bookings, in actuality these members are referring to either their IB Plus or their BA Exec Club partner redemptions.