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Old Jan 18, 12, 9:38 am   #1
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Should the TalkBoard votes be held in public?

Currently the TalkBoard votes on motions using FT's poll feature in the private TB forum.

Here is what it looks like:


While a vote is live, as TB members vote, we can see in real time the numbers go up. By clicking on the number (9 under yes in this case), we can see which TB members voted Yes, No or Abstain both while the vote is underway and when it is complete.

I think that it would make sense to do TB voting in this forum instead of the private forum. That way all posters could see, in real time, how their TB members are voting during the 2 week voting period.

It would also let posters know in real time when a decision has been made by the TB (because a motion gets 6 for or 4 against). This would avoid having posters waste their time by debating an issue that has been settled but not yet announced

It will also allow posters to know whether their TB members typically vote right away, wait until the end of the voting period to vote or whatever.

Basically, it's greater transparency to the real-time voting by the TB.

I asked Carol and IB:


Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
wharvey had an excellent suggestion in the public TB forum:

imho, this is a brilliant suggestion.

So my question for Carol and the IB folks is:

Is it technically feasible to

- hold a poll in the public TB forum that only TB members can vote on?

- hold a poll in the TB Town Hall forum that only TB members can vote on (by giving us edit authority but all others read-only access or something?)?

- hold a poll in a new TB votes sub-forum that only TB members can vote on but that all posters can see?
The answer was Yes.... Yes.... And Yes.

Apparently there isn't a problem with only letting certain usergroups vote and letting other usergroups view the polls. The tricky part would be allowing users to see who voted for what.

So it might be that posters could only view the numbers and not click on the numbers to get the names of who voted how while voting was in progress.

Anyway, I'm thinking it'd be great to give all posters real-time access to this information.

But I'd love input from posters and other TB members, both current and former!
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Old Jan 18, 12, 9:54 am   #2
 
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I would support this idea. I'm all for efficiency, so identifying when a measure has passed or been defeated would be a big time savings in terms of ongoing debate.
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Old Jan 18, 12, 9:59 am   #3
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I'm all for it, as it gives "instant" gratification, in that everyone could see the vote, rather than waiting until the end of the voting period or until everyone on TB has voted to see the results. If everyone could see who has and has not voted, members would be able to determine if there are TB members who routinely wait until the very end of voting to cast their ballot, either in an attempt to block a measure as long as possible, because they enjoy making everyone wait, or because they want to wait until everyone was able to "have a say" in the comments welcome thread. It would allow those who are passionate about an issue to know when the debate effectively becomes useless.
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Old Jan 18, 12, 10:08 am   #4
 
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I like the idea and think it would be a very nice step toward transparency between the TB and the general FT membership.
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Old Jan 18, 12, 10:48 am   #5
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After much thought, I'm convinced. I'd support this as well.

(Proactive strike here: And for anyone who thinks any of koko's post violates either the TOS or TB Guidelines, I completely and vehemently disagree.)
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Old Jan 18, 12, 10:52 am   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post

(Proactive strike here: And for anyone who thinks any of koko's post violates either the TOS or TB Guidelines, I completely and vehemently disagree.)
lol, I suspect some may be setting up a pyre anyway...

But seriously, I am curious to hear some potential down-sides to this proposal. I'm having a hard time coming up with any myself.

It works well for the US Congress, after all....



(and yes, that example was purposefully chosen! )
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Old Jan 18, 12, 10:55 am   #7
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Opposed. This could incentivize late voters to vote along with the majority if a vote has already been decided. I want to know that a TB's vote represents their own feelings, and not a fear that they will appear to be the odd man out on a vote.
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Old Jan 18, 12, 10:59 am   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
lol, I suspect some may be setting up a pyre anyway...

But seriously, I am curious to hear some potential down-sides to this proposal. I'm having a hard time coming up with any myself.

It works well for the US Congress, after all....



(and yes, that example was purposefully chosen! )
Bravo!

(Although in a football game I would have to issue a 15-yard penalty for taunting.)
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Old Jan 18, 12, 11:00 am   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconFlyer View Post
Opposed. This could incentivize late voters to vote along with the majority if a vote has already been decided. I want to know that a TB's vote represents their own feelings, and not a fear that they will appear to be the odd man out on a vote.
But that can happen when the voting is done in the private forum too. The vote results and roll call are announced after 2 weeks or all TB members vote. So if I am a late voter in the private forum, I might vote yes just to not appear to be the odd man out once the results are posted.

So the only difference is, if a TB member voted late you could watch it happen live and draw your own conclusion from that. It's more information for posters.
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Old Jan 18, 12, 11:05 am   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
But that can happen when the voting is done in the private forum too. The vote results and roll call are announced after 2 weeks or all TB members vote. So if I am a late voter in the private forum, I might vote yes just to not appear to be the odd man out once the results are posted.

So the only difference is, if a TB member voted late you could watch it happen live and draw your own conclusion from that. It's more information for posters.
Voting time or order are not revealed currently. TB members should not be judged on when they vote, as long as they vote within the required time period. This isn't a race.
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Old Jan 18, 12, 11:06 am   #11
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I think it would be a good idea.
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Old Jan 18, 12, 11:24 am   #12
 
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I have to ask, how does it work? IF you put the poll in an open forum, wouldn't anyone reading the forum be able to vote? Does the software allow the polls open to certain people? That makes sense as to why its in the private tb forum, so only the TB can see it..

If the software allows for polls to be placed anywhere and only a certain few can access it, then I'm for the openness of the talk board.
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Old Jan 18, 12, 1:00 pm   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
lol, I suspect some may be setting up a pyre anyway...

But seriously, I am curious to hear some potential down-sides to this proposal. I'm having a hard time coming up with any myself.

It works well for the US Congress, after all....



(and yes, that example was purposefully chosen! )
While your example is good, I see two issues with it.....
  1. This shows simply a yes or no vote and the house member names are not used nor not made public until either the vote is final or a roll call vote is needed
  2. The discussion period has been closed and then the voting is being done as opposed to here where the discussion is still going on while the vote is happeneing

For F/t, I'd like to see the discussion period closed, then have the voting period start with the results shown in real time (and if possible, simply a yes/no/abstain without names until the vote is final/voting period has ended)
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Old Jan 18, 12, 1:01 pm   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goalie View Post
While your example is good, I see two issues with it.....
  1. This shows simply a yes or no vote and the house member names are not used nor not made public until either the vote is final or a roll call vote is needed
  2. The discussion period has been closed and then the voting is being done as opposed to here where the discussion is still going on while the vote is happeneing

For F/t, I'd like to see the discussion period closed, then have the voting period start with the results shown in real time (and if possible, simply a yes/no/abstain without names until the vote is final/voting period has ended)
Me too, but if that isn't possible, I prefer koko's approach to the status quo.
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Old Jan 18, 12, 1:04 pm   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
After much thought, I'm convinced. I'd support this as well.

(Proactive strike here: And for anyone who thinks any of koko's post violates either the TOS or TB Guidelines, I completely and vehemently disagree.)
Of course it does. No question.

I'm more concerned though that he hasn't bothered to turn off the facebook linking yet...

I can't see any downside to this, and I can see some upsides.
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