Motion Passed: Change Coupon Connection Access Requirements

[cblaisd]

Originally Posted by BurBunny

While that may be true, not everyone is "fluent" in the ebb and flow of communication in the forums, may have been "slapped" by some of the more aggressive members, may only visit occasionally and their particular "lifestyle" forum not have a lot of traffic.

It's certainly frustrating when folks get slapped, particularly newbies.

But if the member is "only visit[ing] occasionally," then he or she hasn't yet really shown a commitment to being a part of the FlyerTalk community.

That's okay. There have been other IBBs that I've joined and then realized for a variety of reasons that I didn't really want to get very involved with them -- but I wouldn't expect to be a part of the "extras" of those IBBs for folks who had indeed shown a history in and dedication to that community and its core mission.

Coupon Connection is just that - an "extra" for those who have shown a commitment to and history with the community and its core mission of information about travel/miles/points. a half a year and 180 posts is not really very much time or that many posts if one is truly "hooked" by FT. A post a day -- about a favorite restaurant, or a trip report (even a day trip), or some such will add to the store of information here. And the more information, the more helpful this community is!

And to anticipate other objections: I quite agree with those who believe that posts in such things as the "lounge threads" ought not be counted. But then, imo, those threads ought not to exist; but that's another topic. Nor should posts in the "game threads" that have popped up in the past in certain forums -- but, hopefully, the cause of those won't be happening again.

[fzwinter]

I support the new proposed changes for CC access. Anecdotally, I've seen a few recent cases with folks having 90, 91, 92, etc. posts entering CC and simply asking for things. Once I reviewed the posters history and saw that the poster clearly was doing a lot of post padding to get to the CC access level. Not a good debut in my book. Perhaps things would be similar with a 180 post minimum, but at least the FTer would have more time to contribute to the community. My 2c.

[GUWonder]

Originally Posted by nsx

Personally I'd rather see an announcement on every 100k mile credit card deal.

Understandable but the difference between that and this kind of situation is that this kind of situation involves a change under the control of the elected representatives of FT members; the 100k mile credit card offers are not a change under the control of the elected representatives of FT members.

[bhatnasx]

Originally Posted by tom911

That would be a very positive step to better communication with the members.

I have another question and any Talk Board member can answer it. Why wasn't there a discussion thread on this topic BEFORE a voting thread was posted? With the recent OMNI changes, we had a 20 day discussion thread for comments by members, followed by a separate thread afterward announcing the voting. The discussion thread was very active with 106 posts.

In the case of Coupon Connection, the only thread is the voting thread. If we had a discussion thread, before the voting thread, maybe a better compromise would have been reached as to the wording of the motion (and at the very least on how to alert the low count members, who are less likely to be aware of this forum to offer comments, before the vote took place). I think you missed an opportunity here to get input from the members on how to craft the motion. If it is defeated with the current wording, I hope you will have a new discussion thread for how to word a new motion.

Agreed completely. And again, speaking on my behalf only....

The TalkBoard Guidelines only *require* that a topic be up for discussion in the internal forum for a minimum of 48 hours before a motion can be seconded. There is no *requirement* that the members be informed of on-going discussions - it is up to the TalkBoard to notify the membership. Generally, in the past (though this isn't always the case as indicated by this vote), a TB member who brings up an idea may also bring that idea up in the public forum.

Sometimes, it would seem in recent years, that folks are a little to eager to get a proposal out there & seconded without consulting the membership & thinking it fully through. Not sure I agree with that strategy - but it is what it is.

[bhatnasx]

Originally Posted by cblaisd

But giveaways are already addressed; the CC mods can do a giveaway on behalf of another member already.

That is a very nice gesture, but I've been more, if more negatively, impressed by the those whose 91st FT post is an eBay-style "make me an offer and I'll 'sell' to the highest bidder."

True, but does an under-90 post member have the ability to:

1) Experience the spirit of the CC community?
2) Have the ability to see who the CC mods are easily without having access to the forum?

[GUWonder]

As I expect that this will pass (in some form or another and rather soon at that), what will happen more is something that already happens on FT and which doesn't necessarily involve CC moderators acting as intermediaries.

The outcome of further restrictions on the overwhelming majority of FT members may ease some of the work burden that FTers may create when using the restricted forums or engaging in pursuits that would have otherwise increased chance of occurring in the restricted forum(s) absent the TB-approved restrictions created for the "restricted" public forum(s); however, the problems will still exist and new problems will arise or get worse as a result of transactions going further underground yet still involving FTers. Whether TB or others operating in an official capacity of some sort on FT care about that or not, who knows -- perhaps this all speaks to the notion that "ignorance is bliss".

[lin821]

I believe it's a right move to any change of policies to emphasize or encourage participation and contribution to FT. That only makes a better FT. Give-and-take is what keeps FT vital and energetic. FT simply can't survive by takers and/or lurkers only.

Originally Posted by bhatnasx

- someone here recommended 90 posts/180 days of membership - I thought that was a great compromise...

Originally Posted by BurBunny

I truly feel 90 is an adequate minimum, especially combined with a higher minmum membership requirement.

IMHO, 90/180 is the same as 90/90, which is not a great compromise at all. If the change were to 90/180, I would have not rendered my support.

If you guys had paid attention to aggressive post runners for CC, you would have seen how many of them were doing it "enthusiastically" to reach their 90th post during the last 24 hours, if not 72, before their (current) 90-day requirement was up.

I've also seen long-time FTers with very low post count decide to "rack up" their post count with one-liner comment once they learned about CC and the requirement for CC entry in certain threads they either read or posted.

If the game rule were changed to 90-post/180-day, for those who decide to pad posts would only wait till their day 179 (i.e. the last 24 hours) or day 177 (72 hour count down). They wouldn't get the message and the rationale in the change to a higher threshold for CC entry.

Originally Posted by cblaisd

I've been more, if more negatively, impressed by the those whose 91st FT post is an eBay-style "make me an offer and I'll 'sell' to the highest bidder."

Or, their 91st posts were made in this CC thread over Technical Issues Forum asking, "I've got 90/90, why I am not seeing CC?"

Guess what? They all earned a rolling-eye bonus in my RBPs to mods.

Originally Posted by fzwinter

Anecdotally, I've seen a few recent cases with folks having 90, 91, 92, etc. posts entering CC and simply asking for things. Once I reviewed the posters history and saw that the poster clearly was doing a lot of post padding to get to the CC access level.

The post padders I've seen or RBPed tend to be takers rather than givers on FT. Some performed "smart" post-runs to be in CC then took advantage of the generosity of FTers. That only hurts the community spirit.

But just like some FTers would walk out from a DO without paying their fair share of meal. Some just take-free-for-all for granted.

Originally Posted by bhatnasx

True, but does an under-90 post member have the ability to:

1) Experience the spirit of the CC community?

What is the spirit of the CC community? Are you suggesting a sampling platter of "the spirit of CC community" to under-90 post members?

The spirit of CC community is an extension, if not the same, of the spirit of FT community. FTers have been a very giving crowd. We give advices on FT. Free of charge. We share good tips about travel. Free of charge. We talk about our passion for miles and points. Again, no charge. Unlike New York Times with plans to charge for online access, FT is free. You don't even have to sign up to be a FTer before you can enjoy the spirit of FT community.

Originally Posted by bhatnasx

2) Have the ability to see who the CC mods are easily without having access to the forum?

Isn't that what View Forum Leaders is for (located at the bottom panel of forum front page)?

Even if members can't find it, all they have to do is ask. I've seen folks asking how to contact forum mods and got replies from fellow FTers. I've read FTers with low post count saying they wanted to offer unused travel vouchers but couldn't use CC. Within minutes, literally, they got replies suggesting them to contact CC mods (with either links or directions).

It may come to no surprise to you, folks are frequently asking things about FT Glossary and FAQ, when the Help Dropdown Menu is in plain sight, i.e. the very top of FT forum frontpage. Do fellow FTers answer those basic questions? Of course! All the times.

I am just not sure how these are relevant to the change of CC access requirement.

[8dimsum]

I stumbled across this TB discussion thread. First of all, I took a "peek" at one of my old posts to get a sense of how many times I have posted (176) and when I joined (2009): I have FT on my "most visited" list. I am still learning about FT. I have yet to access CC and feel that I haven't the price of admission. -- I am slowly making the rounds. At times I have to figure out the "shorthand": lol/lots of laughs?/little old lady?/lack of luck? OMG! You have my trust to keep FT fair. --naive? yeah.

[bhatnasx]

Originally Posted by lin821

I believe it's a right move to any change of policies to emphasize or encourage participation and contribution to FT. That only makes a better FT. Give-and-take is what keeps FT vital and energetic. FT simply can't survive by takers and/or lurkers only.

IMHO, 90/180 is the same as 90/90, which is not a great compromise at all. If the change were to 90/180, I would have not rendered my support.

Agreed - changes should be beneficial to the community. I guess the question pops into mind is whether the change is something that's a preference for the CC mods or whether it's truly benefiting the community.

Originally Posted by lin821

If you guys had paid attention to aggressive post runners for CC, you would have seen how many of them were doing it "enthusiastically" to reach their 90th post during the last 24 hours, if not 72, before their (current) 90-day requirement was up.

I haven't paid attention to aggressive post runners as I generally only frequent CC when I have something or when I need something. Still, the idea of the CC is something new to most people - especially in consideration that there are generally percieved higher risks with other venues - so I would expect there to be enthusiasm behind being able to reach that 90-point mark & I understand if someone is at 85 posts, potentially posting 5 posts in a day to get there. That said, if someone is at 10 posts & posts 80 in a day to get there, that's a different story, IMHO.

Originally Posted by lin821

I've also seen long-time FTers with very low post count decide to "rack up" their post count with one-liner comment once they learned about CC and the requirement for CC entry in certain threads they either read or posted.

I have less of a problem with that.

Originally Posted by lin821

The spirit of CC community is an extension, if not the same, of the spirit of FT community....

You are correct - I'll take back what I said. However, similar to the mileage run forum, the CC forum is probably one of the more visited & unique things about FlyerTalk - which is what I meant more by "spirit' I think.

Originally Posted by lin821

Isn't that what View Forum Leaders is for (located at the bottom panel of forum front page)?

Even if members can't find it, all they have to do is ask. I've seen folks asking how to contact forum mods and got replies from fellow FTers. I've read FTers with low post count saying they wanted to offer unused travel vouchers but couldn't use CC. Within minutes, literally, they got replies suggesting them to contact CC mods (with either links or directions).

It is - but many people don't know it's there as you've mentioned - and many people don't necessariy want someone to give something away on their behalf (or wouldn't necessarily think to do that) - but you are correct in your assumptions - still, I'm sure that many more newer FTers don't speak up.

Originally Posted by lin821

I am just not sure how these are relevant to the change of CC access requirement.

Maybe they are not - but that FTer, with the below 180 post count, was giving something to the community without asking anything in return & I don't fully believe that someone like that should be restricted from trading or receiving gifts in return - it was an example of why I'm on the fence on this.

FWIW, my initial gut reaction was that if OMNI was going to be as restrictive as it is, then Coupon Connection should have at least the same, if not stronger, restrictions for participation.

But I'm not here necessarily to vote with my gut - I'm here to listen to member commentary & make a judgement based on what I perceive to be the best course of action for FlyerTalk from that commentary & my gut.

[1k650]

I vote in favor.

[neuron]

While going through this thread, I did want to bring up a couple of points I was thinking about over the weekend (one which bhatnasx has picked up on).

While attending FTUniversity, I did overhear a conversation about trades and 'trust'. In a virtual world, it is difficult to determine a level of trust, but I think a measure is time spent and thoughtfulness to the community, which can be reflected in longevity and post numbers (yes, you can still be screwed, but likely less so). In trading I have looked at a poster's profile and posting record and on one occasion decided to not trade.

The second point is when offering goods (without reciprocation - except a little karma or pay it forward). Coupon Connection is sometimes a method for giving back to the FT community. I have offered many items over the last few years on CC and on the regular airline threads without any request for return. By and large, the ones I get requests for on the regular threads are from first-time posters. That's great if I can bring in more people to the community. Its not so great when I do a forensic and see that most of the people never posted more than once after I sent them something! I do not mind that, I tried and I offered, but perhaps the incentive for posting and staying in the FT community is the ability to share something of monetary value. As an alternative for giveaway items, offer a site for anyone who wishes to give away stuff on a forum that is without limitations -- with the poster deciding whether they post their free items on CC or 'Coupons for free'. (There are some forum with consolidated freebies threads).

Even with the Coupons for free thread, I believe the 180/180 thresholds for access should be put into effect.

[cblaisd]

Originally Posted by neuron

Even with the Coupons for free thread, I believe the 180/180 thresholds for access should be put into effect.

Thoughtful post, thank you.

Re the idea of a "free coupons" forum that would be without restriction, unfortunately I suspect that there would quickly be a lot of folks who would simply ignore the "free" part.

Sadly, this even happens on CC now - I know I've responded over the years to a couple of "free" posts, only to discover that the poster was simply lying and was looking to make a trade or even a sale.

[grteyes2]

From a number of posts, seems apparent that not all ft'ers even post. That is their decision. Am ok with suggestion to change to 180/180.

Would be an interesting but perhaps trivial to know the number of actual FT'ers that logon on to access CC vs total members that also logon

[UK Flyer 1]

Originally Posted by neuron

While going through this thread, I did want to bring up a couple of points I was thinking about over the weekend (one which bhatnasx has picked up on).

While attending FTUniversity, I did overhear a conversation about trades and 'trust'. In a virtual world, it is difficult to determine a level of trust, but I think a measure is time spent and thoughtfulness to the community, which can be reflected in longevity and post numbers (yes, you can still be screwed, but likely less so). In trading I have looked at a poster's profile and posting record and on one occasion decided to not trade.

The second point is when offering goods (without reciprocation - except a little karma or pay it forward). Coupon Connection is sometimes a method for giving back to the FT community. I have offered many items over the last few years on CC and on the regular airline threads without any request for return. By and large, the ones I get requests for on the regular threads are from first-time posters. That's great if I can bring in more people to the community. Its not so great when I do a forensic and see that most of the people never posted more than once after I sent them something! I do not mind that, I tried and I offered, but perhaps the incentive for posting and staying in the FT community is the ability to share something of monetary value. As an alternative for giveaway items, offer a site for anyone who wishes to give away stuff on a forum that is without limitations -- with the poster deciding whether they post their free items on CC or 'Coupons for free'. (There are some forum with consolidated freebies threads).

Even with the Coupons for free thread, I believe the 180/180 thresholds for access should be put into effect.

I agree with the sentiment of this post, good points made.
Nevertheless I remain uncertain that, if the point of the proposed increase is to prevent newbies from bagging karma style offerings, that 100 does not already set the bar high enough.

Speaking personally I am very fortunate in having been a member for many years, have engaged in very successful trades, and I enjoy a number of decent friendships as a result. I would like to think that inviting others to share in that benefit is a good thing and sits well with an ethos of inclusivity.

I am surprised some have not suggested going the other way, lowering the requirement, but I can see that there is a healthy diversity of viewpoints here.

Rock on FT.

[UK Flyer 1]

Is someone able to provide the link to the voting.

Thank you